Former Race Buells hiding under tarps?

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Kurlon

Kurlon

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2023
Messages
276
Location
Southern Maine
I've decided I don't have enough stress in my life and therefore am going to try and race in the Super Hooligan class of MotoAmerica. I'd like to do so on a Buell, with a hope of making the COTA round in September. To do so, I have to commit to an entry by the end of August, which means I don't have much time to source, prep, and test a bike. Before I find a street machine to molest, any race bikes looking for a 2nd chance at life hiding out on the east coast? (I'm in Maine.) The one stipulation, that will likely make my life difficult finding such a machine, SH rules require that it shipped with regular bars so XBRs (Firebolts) are out. By the numbers, an XB12Ss seems like the ideal target but right now I'm not super picky.
 
Most suspension guys look at the XB's factory VERY steep rake and lack of trail and immediately start wanting to re-engineer the bike to 'safer' numbers. The Ss has numbers that more resemble other bikes I've raced and felt good on. (They resemble an R6, and other than more trail are close to a TZ250, good place to be.) I'm comfortable turning wrenches and getting my hands dirty on the mechanical and electrical side of things, but I've not had much luck on the suspension side of the house so I lean on the pros. Added fun, my local guy who I trust has retired, so I'll be having to ship stuff and do a lot of this remote so my hope is by starting with something closer to everything else we spend less time learning and more time going fast.

For the record, I'm 5'10, 150lbs so not big at all, and I actually don't mind being folded up on a bike. I started on pitbikes, including a CRF70 I put way WAY too much time and money into... at the end I was doing regular track days at Loudon with it to give you an idea... I'm at home in a full tuck with my knees in my chest, elbows out to the side to make room for them as my chin is on the tank, so I don't need the extra ergo room. Still, going from a 52in wheelbase to 54in still makes the bike the same as my old FZR400RR SP, it's not like the Ss is massive on paper. :D I've not sat on any XB in real life though, my paper stats only count, on paper.
 
Tollywood said:
This is a race bike project located in Michigan.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175787152063
Click to expand...

I've looked at that machine before... With my current read of the rules it's not class legal, it was initially stamped as an XBR (shipped with clipon'esqe style bars) and now doesn't have a valid VIN so fails on a couple points unfortunately.

I've seen the XSCG in Maine posted in a few spots and it's on my radar.
 
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I would love to see what you get and what you do to it. I would also love to follow your racing adventures. Please keep us posted.
 
Kurlon said:
Most suspension guys look at the XB's factory VERY steep rake and lack of trail and immediately start wanting to re-engineer the bike to 'safer' numbers. The Ss has numbers that more resemble other bikes I've raced and felt good on. (They resemble an R6, and other than more trail are close to a TZ250, good place to be.) I'm comfortable turning wrenches and getting my hands dirty on the mechanical and electrical side of things, but I've not had much luck on the suspension side of the house so I lean on the pros. Added fun, my local guy who I trust has retired, so I'll be having to ship stuff and do a lot of this remote so my hope is by starting with something closer to everything else we spend less time learning and more time going fast.

For the record, I'm 5'10, 150lbs so not big at all, and I actually don't mind being folded up on a bike. I started on pitbikes, including a CRF70 I put way WAY too much time and money into... at the end I was doing regular track days at Loudon with it to give you an idea... I'm at home in a full tuck with my knees in my chest, elbows out to the side to make room for them as my chin is on the tank, so I don't need the extra ergo room. Still, going from a 52in wheelbase to 54in still makes the bike the same as my old FZR400RR SP, it's not like the Ss is massive on paper. :D I've not sat on any XB in real life though, my paper stats only count, on paper.
Click to expand...

All good points! They didn't make nearly as many, but I have a soft spot for them too.
 
Kurlon said:
I've not sat on any XB in real life though, my paper stats only count, on paper.
Click to expand...

You really need to do this first. I think the IRL XB fit is much different than on paper. XB's fit weirdly different than any other bike out there. I'm 5'10 also and have owned both Ss and short models (current bike is a Scg). I prefer the long models too, but I'd think you'd fit either well.

If someone lied to you and told you an Ss was actually S, you probably wouldnt notice. But, there is a difference, especially if you try them back to back, its not a huge difference, but it is there.
 
I'm trying my damndest to get my ass in a Buell seat ASAP. Looks like I'll have an S1W project in hand this weekend to work on over the winter, still want to try an XB if I can.

And bring the snark... my bad ideas need to be called out for what they are. :D
 
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On the bad ideas page: Seems like Ulysses and XTs are oddly abundant and relatively low cost around me. My understanding is the frame and swingarm are shared with the Ss, and the XT geometry numbers in particular look similar. How dumb would converting an XT be? Would an XT accept Firebolt footrest brackets to get the pegs up?

Belt drive - Normally race Buells get converted to chain, most orgs have rules explicitly making exceptions to allow this even in SuperSport or Production classes, getting the gearing right allows you maximum perf by matching top speed to the track, what gear you’re in at each corner, etc. But, what if I said Nah and kept it belt? The Ulys have shorter primary gearing, can a stock/uncorked XB actually use all the gearing it has out of the crate?
 
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Everything bolts up on XB's:) #shoestring engineering:black_eyed: Some of the Uly's had a weird axle set-back on the lower fork casting that would not be beneficial to road racing. I assume you'll be changing spacers/springs first thing, even if you keep the Showas. I believe the BPF's off the EBR 1190 bolt on as well, but haven't checked myself. I can measure them if you like.

Do the Uly's have the shorter primary? Like a 9? I dunno. But a 12 will use all its gearing just fine. Chain conversion is super easy and cheap so why not. I back to back noticed a better on/off throttle response due to the lack of belt stretch and zero cush drive with the chain, but it seemed to last without it so send it!
 
Looks like the 08 XTs don't have negative offset based on the pics of my potential candidate, IIRC they're slightly smaller forks than the Xs? Bolting up a set of 1190 forks would be slick, assuming overall length is compatible, and there is a top clamp with regular bar mounts. I thought I read somewhere about someone with a 12 putting a Uly primary in to shorten things up, maybe it was Uly riders putting 9 primaries in for more control in the dirt?

Edit: Did some more poking, yeah, the 09 X has the negative offset fork lugs, good to know.
 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sir: Confusing and incorrect info being received from somewhere. As follows:

The X model is the Ulysses....The XT model is NOT a Ulysses. It is a "Touring Long" model
All Ulysses X models designated with DX in VIN
All Touring Long XT models designated with FX in VIN
X models have the Showa front axle off-set
XT models do NOT have the Showa front axle off-set
ALL XB-1203cc models have the "taller" factory primary gearing
All XB-984cc models have the "shorter" factory primary gearing
All X....XT...Stt....Ss models share same front and rear primary belt pulleys as well as belt tooth count. Do a search of my board name recent activity for all pulley and belt sizes listed for Mesozoic.
 
What, this forum has no like button? Thank you for the corrections just the same, I'm still in info overload mode right now trying to gather what data I can bouncing around online while I work to get something physical in my hands so any all all corrections are appreciated. The 'Touring Long' designation makes much more sense looking at the specs compared to an Ss and X, makes me that much more comfortable going that route now. I do show the XT with the same basic geo as the Ss (rake/trail, suspension travel), but with more than an inch more ground clearance, longer shock and forks or did they find room underneath with a different muffler design?
 
Kurlon said:
On the bad ideas page: Seems like Ulysses and XTs are oddly abundant and relatively low cost around me. My understanding is the frame and swingarm are shared with the Ss, and the XT geometry numbers in particular look similar. How dumb would converting an XT be? Would an XT accept Firebolt footrest brackets to get the pegs up?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they will bolt up. The Firebolt/Lightning brackets are relatively cheap and easy to find. I couldn't give away a set a year or so ago. The OE footpegs are another story. The only problem you may have by doing this is you will likely lose your passenger footpegs since the mount is shared. On a Firebolt/Lightning that mount was connected to the subframe.
 
If I have a passenger during a race, I've either done something horribly wrong, or been involved in someone else's horribly not good day. :D Ultimately I expect to end up on custom plates to utilize race pegs, but knowing I can temporarily adapt Firebolt bits to keep things from dragging to start is nice. Looks like Woodcraft's rearsets are long out of production, but that mount pattern doesn't look horrible to re-engineer so I may hit up a friend to do up a setup for me like he did my FZR back in the day.
 
Great info from Barrett!
When it comes to Buell parts. E-bay is your friend:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2043552933...rLyOtGWYboTcbMuqojwOoVcO0=|tkp:Bk9SR7qD7NShYg

I have ran these cheap-os before and honestly not bad. Simple to raise the pegs/pivot to an even more extreme position than is on the bracket already.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1660328256...AUSLkKXKDarCsIZRWCSgRzZHI=|tkp:Bk9SR7qD7NShYg

The 1190SX upper triple came with bars, and the BPF's were on everything for a long time. But the XB Showas aren't really that bad either.
 
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