'04 xb9sl fuel pump or electronics?

[drootang]

I have a 2004 xb9sl w/factory race muffler. I'm not original owner. Bike has sat in a mix of outdoors and non-temperature-controlled garage for ~10 years now without starting. Decided recently to try to get it running again. Purchased a new battery. When i hit the starter, I can hear it engaging with the motor and actually spinning it. It sounds very good, it just won't start.

The most notable thing at this point is that when i flip the red run switch on, I do not hear the whine of the fuel pump (maybe i have high pitch hearing loss in last 10 years, who knows). I wasn't 100% certain this was a fuel pump issue, so continued with a fuel swap.

I drained the old fuel and added a smallish amount of fresh 91 octane. I disconnected the downstream fuel line at the rear of the fuel pump so I can see the hole of the stub poking out of the pump where fuel is delivered, and turned the red run switch on hoping to see fuel squirt or dribble out, but nothing happens. I hit the starter button and the behavior is exactly as it was before. I'm not certain I have enough fuel in there for the pump to pick it up. I'd estimate ~16 fl ozs.

I disconnected the fuel pump wiring harness and used a voltmeter to probe the 4 pins in the female harness with the key on and red run switch off and on.

Y/R (low fuel lamp) - always 0v
BK (ground) - always 0v
BN/Y (pin 3 ECM) - always 12v
GY (ignition relay) - 0v when red run switch is off, 12v when red run switch is on

I watched the voltage readings over the 4 seconds of expected priming when the run switch is first enabled and nothing changes over time. This doesn't make sense to me as something must disable the pump after those 4 seconds of priming until you hit the ignition (bad ECM?)

I'm not 100% certain I'm checking for codes correctly, but after turning the bike on, the check engine light turns off after 4 seconds and does not come back on. That means no code as far as I can tell. That is also odd to me.

All fuses look to be intact. I swapped the 3 relays around and no symptoms changed. I believe all 3 relays are good.

I can't tell if I have a bad pump, a wiring fault, a bad ECM, or something else I haven't considered.

I would appreciate any diagnoses or thoughts from more experienced buellers!


(I hope this is posted in the right place. It's a lightning, but the forum doesn't list the xb9s/l in the description)

 

[ztied]

I would recommend
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17584045597...Bk9SR9yd7tu4Yg
He`s a member here goes by Barret.
Very trustworthy, fast shipper, and will help you with any questions.
I believe he will rebuild it also, (check with him first)
Same for me, I bought a buell xb12r that was last tagged 2015, and fuel pump was toast. The stale gas ate thru the fuel level sensor also.

 

[Barrett]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks again Mike for the very kind words. Much appreciated.

Sir: Your XB is coming up on 20 years old. By your own account it has sat for a decade with fuel, however slight amount, in the frame and saturating the pump. The pump is destroyed. Chances are excellent you'll be horrified at its condition once it's removed for rebuild or replacement. The 2004 pump, if still original to this bike, is first gen style. Easily identifiable by very long support fixture and 2 dedicated curved rubber hoses carrying the fuel supply within the pump. Extremely susceptible to failure when exposed to stale fuel over a long period of time. Like 10 years.

 

[drootang]

Thank you both

ztied, the link you provided actually includes the ellipses in the URL. It's a dead link.

Barrett, do you sell a replacement or rebuild kit? I'm guessing that link ztied provided is something you are selling since he specifically mentioned you being a fast shipper.

 

[ztied]

Sorry about link, but yes I was promoting Barrett. Try it this way look up item 175840455972 on ebay.
His kits include the fuel level sensor, and all orings.
No problem John. It`s hard to find good people/service now adays.

 

[drootang]

I've watched the vids on pump removal and plan on that for the next step. Will report back.

ztied, thanks for the item number. Will wait and see how the current pump looks before ordering anything.

 

[drootang]

Took a couple days to source a 7/8" hex bit to break the axle, and the nooks and crannies to wedge the pump out with a flathead are WAY smaller on my bike than on the cityx video i watched, but got it pulled. I'm not sure what it looks like new, but it doesn't look that bad to me...





Weird, I could have sworn there was another post from Barrett in this thread suggesting I pull the pump and we look at the state to see what is needed.

Would love some feedback based on the pics, otherwise logical next step is to get as complete a kit as possible and replace as much as I can.

 

[drootang]

Either I'm losing my mind or posts are being deleted and edited in this thread without any tags indicating things changed...

Thanks for the parts list, Barret. I could have sworn you said you sell these, but your recent posts suggests sourcing from Cooter. Is this something you can provide or should I contact Cooter?

 

[lancruza]

Either I'm losing my mind or posts are being deleted and edited in this thread without any tags indicating things changed...

Thanks for the parts list, Barret. I could have sworn you said you sell these, but your recent posts suggests sourcing from Cooter. Is this something you can provide or should I contact Cooter?

These are John's (Barrett) - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1758404559...pUQhoaipaDQXixOr0FGX1pOMJS|tkp:Bk9SR_Ts0YC-Yg

 

[drootang]

Already ordered the kit at the link lancruza shared

 

[Cooter]

You can contact either myself or Cooter for pump parts and assistance. Wasn't aware he stocks all new pump parts.

Oh no. I'm no parts store guy. I keep pumps and parts on the shelf for service work. I don't sell anything other than misc Buell stuff I collect and don't need.

Need anything? LOL.

 

[drootang]

Finished the rebuild and installation using the kit Barrett provided. While I believe the pump is now working, the engine won't start. I guess injectors and plugs next, unless anyone has a better suggestion?

Here are some lessons learned from the fuel pump rebuild experience for an '04 xb9sl with the gen1 pump in case anyone is attempting this and comes across this thread.

I was able to remove the pump assembly from the frame without removing the swingarm (I did have to remove the bolt where the shock attaches to the swingarm so it can hang lower), but this didn't buy me much because I couldn't get it back in with the swingarm fully attached. I had to loosen the pinch bolt for the main swingarm pivot and then loosen the axle. I only had to pull the axle out an inch or so and the swingarm dropped another ~1", which was enough clearance for me to get the pump assembly back in. So might as well make your life easier from the start and just do that for removal too.

The pump itself was miserable to work with, so steel yourself. The hoses might as well have been superglued on to their connection points. Definitely takes some elbow grease.

Barrett's warnings to thoroughly document the disassembly process were very helpful during reassembly, as were the myriad pictures I took of the original assembly.

The one major mistake I made was removing the oetiker clamp on the outlet from the pressure regulator. I could not remove the connection between the plastic regulator housing and the metal connector even after removing the oetiker clamp. It is different than the rest of the connections. Because I couldn't separate the two pieces, I could not simply slide a new oetiker clamp onto that spot. Instead, I had to careful pry the tab on a clamp open so i could open the clamp completely, wrap it around the connection spot, then use a larger screw-style hose clamp around my actual clamp to apply even pressure to get my clamp to reform into a circle and the tab to pop in.

I highly recommend leaving the original clamp intact if there is no problem with the two parts it joins.

 

[Barrett]

Jeff: Don't get ahead of yourself here and lose sight of the baseline you've already established. Think of your "no start" situation in these terms: If the engine has spark....timing.....compression....fuel....it has no choice. It must start and it will.
My money would be on loss of spark. The front cylinder spark plug simplest to access so remove it...see if it is fuel soaked and black with carbon deposits, and has spark. If wet, bank on both plugs being fouled. If dry, then next step is to replace it and remove the airbox cover and inner airbox assembly lid. That will allow you direct access to the throttle body plate. With access gained..pour a full tablespoon of gasoline down the throttle body while holding throttle wide open. Then after checking that the PUMP and IGN fuses are in good order....crank the engine while holding throttle open approx 1/4 of full turn and see if it fires and runs for a few seconds. If so....fuel delivery problem still exists. If not...loss of spark has occurred.

Click link below and read info I provided. That will answer all your spark plug questions.

https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?57578-05-City-X-quot-The-iMac-quot&p=636973#post636973

 

[drootang]

Thanks, Barrett. I already have the airbox baseplate off because I thought I needed to remove it to access the front plug. The left air scoop is off and I can clearly see and access the plug from the side, but it seems like there's no way to get a socket on it. I could easily get a wrench on it to remove it, but that doesn't seem right, also without a socket I can't torque the new one properly. Seems like I need to go in from the top through where the airbox cover normally is. Am I missing something?

I have new replacement plugs from H-D still in a box I bought years ago.

edit: found this thread: https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?4794-Spark-plug-write-up

 

[drootang]

Rear plug looks like a bear to get to, but the front was relatively easy to pull with a box wrench instead of a socket. Here is the old front plug:



As I mentioned I had new in box (from many years ago) H-D 10R12APP plugs so I put one of those in the front cylinder, connected it and attempted to start the bike. I cannot tell any difference in the sound/feel/behavior from before. From that image, can one definitively say the old plug was not firing and it is relatively safe to assume the new plug is firing, which would mean a fuel deliver problem?

Or it could be an electrical problem and new plug isn't firing either. Is there a good way to check definitively that the plug is firing?

 

[Barrett]

Instructions and answers as follows:
1-From cosmetics only, the plug appears fouled. Definitely replace both to rule out faulty plugs.
2-Use a simple 5/8" box wrench on front plug to remove and reinstall.
3-Tiny dab of anti-seize highly recommended on plug threads prior to installation. Plug gap .032-.035 inches
4-Rear plug removal and installation simple on the 984cc models. Follow instructions in the link you referred to. DO NOT REMOVE the large rubber air horn boot from the throttle body! It connects the airbox base plate to the throttle body. Simply remove the base plate from the air horn boot. Being a "9" model you do NOT have to deal with an IEV system and its complexities. After doing the above and using a 3/8" drive ratchet...long extension...swivel joint at extension end...5/8" plug socket...go in between engine and frame rail and remove the spark plug.
5-Spray liberal amount of penetrant on both plugs and let sit 5 minutes prior to removal attempt.
6-Use link I provided for plug gap procedure and additional info. CLOSELY check both plug wires for continuity and signs of cracking or vermin damage. Check that wiring harness connector to coil is secure and tight.
7-With new plugs installed and PRIOR TO installing airbox inner lid...now try to start. NO START? Pour tablespoon of gasoline down throttle body...hold throttle 1/4 open...attempt to start. That procedure will identify which element for starting you are missing.
NOTE: Closely check all your fuses especially the 10A pump fuse.

 

[drootang]

Great suggestions, Barrett.

I replaced both plugs.
I checked fuses with a multimeter and all have continuity.

Bike still wouldn't start. As a side note, the check engine light is now registering a code (comes back on after 4 seconds of off), but I assume that's just because I have the temperature sensor disconnected as the air box baseplate is removed.

Poured 1 tbsp of fuel down the rubber horn while holding throttle fully open.

Held throttle open 1/4 and started bike. There is definitely ignition—no mistaking it. But then it dies after a second or 2.

Great diagnostic method! So clearly there is a fuel delivery problem still.

I'd like to verify somehow that the pump repairs I did are actually working. I'm not sure exactly how to do this safely. My first thought was to remove the fuel line from the stub protruding outside the fuel pump assembly, cover it with a piece of tupperware or something, then prime the pump. I should see fuel spray if the pump is working, but I don't love the idea of opening a potentially pressurized fuel line to my workspace. Do you have a better suggestion as a starting point? Is it cleaner to remove the fuel line where it connects in the engine bay?

If I can confirm the pump is working properly, then what's left? Clogged injectors?

Thanks for helping me along here. It's very much appreciated!

 

[Barrett]

My pleasure Jeff. I'm deducing from the above that the bike started with the "splash of fuel down the throttle body" procedure.
Which means you have spark....timing...compression...NO fuel flow to throttle body.
You have the IAT sensor disconnected during this process which is activating the CEL and dumping fault code #15 into the ECM. CEL will extinguish once IAT is reconnected and fault code will clear after 50 successive clean run cycles are seen by the ECM.

Lack of fuel flow to throttle body in all probability caused by either clogged fuel line...clogged failed injectors...faulty fuel pump. A quick pump check can be done as follows and get assistance for this and DO IT OUTSIDE! As follows:
Check that the 10A pump fuse is good
Disconnect fuel supply line at pump
Attach either rubber or clear vinyl line to pump outlet port and stick other end of line into suitable fuel container. A clear one gallon water jug works perfectly
With line attached to pump and other end in fuel container being held firmly by you...now have helper do the following:
KEY TO OFF....KILL SWITCH TO OFF...SIDESTAND DOWN...TRANS IN NEUTRAL...CLUTCH LEVER OUT...KEY TO ON...KILL SWITCH TO ON----PUMP SHOULD NOW IMMEDIATELY TURN ON AND PRIME AND BLOW FUEL OUT THE LINE INTO THE CONTAINER.
If above successful you have narrowed it down to clogged fuel supply line and/or injector problem.
Give that a try. A healthy pump supplies approx 50PSI of fuel pressure and should spray strong pressure out the temporary line into the container.

 

[drootang]

Tested the pump and it seems to be working well. I don't have a tool to measure the actual pressure, but I flipped run switch on 3 times and it pumped maybe 1 cup of fuel out total? I was surprised how much came out.

So it's narrowed down to clogged fuel line and/or injectors



Looks like I need to disconnect the fuel line at the fuel rail. The instructions make it sound like you just press the button and pull. Should I use compressed air to try to purge the line? I figure it makes sense to start with the line since its a whole lot easier than the rail and injectors

edit: I ran some low pressure air through the line and can feel it coming out the other end.

 

[drootang]

I am very close to having the fuel rail and injectors removed.



I removed the bolts holding the horseshoe-shaped fuel rail bracket to the velocity stack (10) x2.
I removed the 2 bolts (image only shows 1) at the base of the fuel rail bracket (3).
I removed the electronic connectors in the enjectors (1) and (2)

The fuel rail and injector assembly is loose now and I can jiggle it around.

Is is simply a matter of pulling with sufficient force and wiggling it out? I'm nervous to really get after it without being certain there is nothing else that needs to be done before pulling.

Or do I need to remove the rail and bracket from the injectors first then pull each injector separately?

I was able to get this far without rotating the engine (with some creating acrobatics). I'm not sure I'll be able to put it back together without rotating though...