2003 XB9R no first or second gear... shifting issues help!

[Absentee]

So, bike never shifted the smoothest since I got it, so I changed the primary oil and discovered that it was incredibly low, close to empty if not so. It was shifting rough, especially through 2nd and 3rd gear. Numerous times the shifting got stuck in 2nd, and it would not move down to first at all, and would only go to 3rd with a great effort pulling up.

Changed the primary oil and I thought it started shifting better, but then the problem got worse. Would get stuck in 2nd and be immobile, but not actually engaged in any gear, basically in a false neutral. It would get stuck there sometimes for 5-10 minutes, and then all of the sudden would pop up into third and I would have gears again. Now, first and second are gone, it just goes to neutral, and I am stuck in 3-4-5. I have ridden the bike around a couple days now using only 3-4-5 because its not too hard to start in 3rd. Whenever I try to go down to 2nd it just goes to neutral and then gets a bit stuck when trying to go back up to 3rd, but if I do it quickly it goes back to 3rd without too much of a problem.

Any ideas whats going on here? I am thinking something is bent, because I have never experienced any grinding or clunking that makes me thing gears are worn, just simply gets stuck, feeling like the shift fork is bent or something.

Thanks for the help!
Eric

 

[user_deleted]

your first sentence sums up not only the problem caused but the culprit: low to no primary/trans fluid. damage is done and in all likelihood it's terminal. the fluid is called upon to do yeoman's work in a buell. it must mist the clutch pack....lube the sprockets...lube the primary drive chain...freely flow between the primary cover and trans sump...lube the entire trans assembly...and do this in a somewhat harsh environment of heat, extreme meshing pressures, other demands. your lack of attentive and preventive maintenance resulted in the maladies you're now describing. you CAN remove the primary cover and snoop around inside, if you know what you're looking at, for a possible shaft/pawl/spring related problem....and go thru the amsoil/cable/chain adjustment procedures.....but again in all likelihood your problem lies within the engine cases in the transmission assembly. the fix? engine removal along with splitting of the vertically sealed cases, diagnosis and repair, reassembly and reinstall. and yes it's a huge job for an expert.

 

[ztied]

Correct me if I am wrong, and not to insult you lunatic ( you always have great advice) but the primary oil is seperate from the trans oil on the buells. But I agree sounds internal most likely shifting forks, dont keep trying to force shift, as it will not fix itself, and may just cost you more money,

 

[Absentee]

Like I said I bought the bike with the oil almost empty/empty, and while it didnt shift the smoothest I had heard that buells were clunky, so I thought it was somewhat normal.

Bent shift fork is what I assumed was wrong, but hoped wasnt... It rides great in 3-4-5, so I guess I will keep cruising in those gears (as it literally doesnt have anything below them other than a strange neutral state that is hard to get out of) until closer to the end of riding season when I can (hopefully) do a repair.

Another question though: I have never dealt with a dealership, so if I took my Buell to a Harley dealership will they be able to diagnose the issue? Or would a normal bike shop be a better place to go? I have heard the Buells are kind of an oddball when it comes to mechanics knowing about how they work...

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Absentee]

Also, lunaticfringe, just saw that your in Leola, PA. I am in the Lancaster City area. If you have any greater expertise or knowledge about this sort of problem I would love if you could take a look at the bike. Sounds like you have mechanical experience (or are just pretending to, like everyone else on the internet haha). Shoot me a message if you would be willing to help!

Thanks!

 

[user_deleted]

Correct me if I am wrong, and not to insult you lunatic ( you always have great advice) but the primary oil is seperate from the trans oil on the buells. But I agree sounds internal most likely shifting forks, dont keep trying to force shift, as it will not fix itself, and may just cost you more money,

no sir. you're thinking H-D big twins. they are left hand drive....buells are like sportsters....right hand drive. H-D big twins have a specific fill and cavity for the transmission....the primary drive assembly...and the motor. all Buells and sportsters have 2 fills and a dry-sump motor. the fill in the swingarm on a buell provides the oil to the motor and filter....the fill thru the derby cover on buell/sportster provides oil to both the primary assembly and the trans. the oil interchanges between the 2 if that makes sense.

 

[ocgreenmachine]

Correct me if I am wrong, and not to insult you lunatic ( you always have great advice) but the primary oil is seperate from the trans oil on the buells. But I agree sounds internal most likely shifting forks, dont keep trying to force shift, as it will not fix itself, and may just cost you more money,

The Primary holds oil for both the transmission and clutch. The oil tank holds the oil for the engine.

 

[ocgreenmachine]

Like I said I bought the bike with the oil almost empty/empty, and while it didnt shift the smoothest I had heard that buells were clunky, so I thought it was somewhat normal.

Bent shift fork is what I assumed was wrong, but hoped wasnt... It rides great in 3-4-5, so I guess I will keep cruising in those gears (as it literally doesnt have anything below them other than a strange neutral state that is hard to get out of) until closer to the end of riding season when I can (hopefully) do a repair.

Another question though: I have never dealt with a dealership, so if I took my Buell to a Harley dealership will they be able to diagnose the issue? Or would a normal bike shop be a better place to go? I have heard the Buells are kind of an oddball when it comes to mechanics knowing about how they work...

Thanks for the help guys.

Dealerships may have a Buell tech on staff. The one near me has one. They will charge you an arm and a leg though, so if you know of a good small shop they could help you out. The Buell XB engine is pretty much the same physically as the Sportster engine, with some upgrades, so if you have a working knowledge of the sportster engine (I had a 2004 sportster and now a 2009 XB12) poking around the engine is pretty much the same. The part that is different and a pain is dealing with the engine inside the Buell frame. Having to rotate the engine or remove the frame to work on the top end is a pain in the butt.

Also, have you ever adjusted the clutch to proper specs? Having problems shifting sometimes can be attributed to improper cable/clutch adjustment. You can pull the small derby cover to properly adjust the clutch, then while you are in there, stick a magnet inside the case and see if you pull out debris. Also, maybe drain the primary of what oil there is in there and check the oil for debris as well. Make sure your primary chain is adjusted properly (looking through the inspection cover), and then finally, adjust the clutch cable to the proper specs. Once you complete all these tasks, try it out. If it was simply poor adjustment, you just saved yourself a ton of money and time. If it doesn't fix it, you're out only a few hours of your time and some oil.

Finally, if you are having tranny/clutch issues, riding around town in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears is the last thing you want to do... I would try to address this issue ASAP before you cause an accident or worsen the condition of your bike.

 

[ztied]

Thanks for the correction I couldnt remember, so I just looked at some cases and you can see the ports for the oil.

 

[user_deleted]

Thanks for the correction I couldnt remember, so I just looked at some cases and you can see the ports for the oil.

wasn't necessary to "look at cases". think about your earlier statement for a moment: if the lube within the primary cover doesn't cross-feed into the transmission...and the transmission clearly needs lube to function for even 30 seconds...then where is the fill cap and drain plug for the transmission?

 

[rchuff]

John is a God when it comes to Buells and i would listen to him. You should NOT run your bike as it is because you are taking a chance of costing yourself more money (or parts) but that's on you. just my 2 cents.

 

[user_deleted]

John is a God when it comes to Buells and i would listen to him. You should NOT run your bike as it is because you are taking a chance of costing yourself more money (or parts) but that's on you. just my 2 cents.

you're way too kind ricky. thanks a ton for the very kind words as always. we should think about riding over to ephrata the first sunday of next month weather permitting. imagine it is their last gathering of the season???? if you're up for it as the time gets closer let me know. your pal, john

 

[Absentee]

Thanks for all the help guys, feeling the love from the Buell community :thumbup:

I have adjusted the clutch numerous times, at this point it doesnt change anything with my shifting as far as gaining back 1-2nd gears goes. I have never messed with the primary chain/tensioner at all. I guess that is the next thing to check. Ill try not to ride it, but I finally got most of my riding gear and every day I am itching to get out there...

Thanks again guys

 

[rchuff]

Will let you know John as we get closer to first Sunday. I just got my bike all back together and it is running well so I should be out that way but will let you know buddy.

 

[Chicknstripn]

http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?29941-Firebolt-Shifting-problems
Look over the above thread. Might help you.
However, I agree with lunatic. Sounds to me like your issue is inside the transmission. Not an easy fix. Requires totally disassembling the engine. Also requires special tools or some very intuitive DIY to remove transmission from engine case. Also if 1st and 2nd aren't working the issue is most likely a shift fork. I would recommend replacing all three plus the associated gears and dogs that ineract with one another when the gear in question is selected.
You're pretty much looking at a total transmission rebuild. Not cheap as DIY and probably more money than the bike is worth if you go through any shop. Even at a bro price it might not be worth it.
Shop around and do a ton of research before you take the big leap.
A service manual would also be an invaluable asset.
Good luck

 

[Absentee]

Soooo if it is in fact any issue located within the transmission itself, because of cost (whether to fix it myself, or pay someone to do it) I would be better off just getting a new engine entirely if I can get ahold of one for close to $1000 (price I came up with based on a quick check on ebay)? I do have mechanical experience, but nothing transmission related, and nothing as extreme as cracking an engine in half...

LMK what you guys think.

 

[Chicknstripn]

I'd say so. Unless you really want to get intimate with your motor.. You'll definitely have a great working knowledge of the thing once you're done.
But first check that shift shaft inside the primary cover. Could just be that thing is jacked up. It's a big stretch but you never know.

 

[Absentee]

Yeah I will definitely check all the alternatives before jumping on a new motor. Hoping that lunaticfringe can help me diagnose whats wrong for sure!

 

[Metzman]

Bent shift fork is what I assumed was wrong, but hoped wasnt...

It could be a bent shift fork, but likely isn't as that would still allow either first or second, but not both. My best "GUESS" is that the sliding gear has galled to the shaft due to lack of lubrication and it no longer slides (not easily anyway). By continuing to try putting the bike in 1st and 2nd you likely either broke the shift fork or sheared the dowel pin for the 1st & 2nd shift fork so the fork no longer engages properly in the shift drum, and that's why it gives you a funky false neutral.

If either of these situations are true, then there are large metal parts in your transmission/primary oil. These large metal parts will get picked up by either the primary chain, or one of the larger spinning gears and become wedged in the rotating gear teeth or between the primary chain and the clutch or crank sprockets. This will bring the transmission to an abrupt halt at any speed, grenading what is left of the tranny, cracking cases, and causing great bodily injury to the rider as it (at a minimum) momentarily locks the rear wheel, stalls the engine, and launches the rider from the saddle. Think high side.

I strongly advise you to stop riding the bike as you could get hurt or killed.

Unfortunately, the damage to the transmission is done and you will be removing the engine from the bike and tearing the engine all the way down and splitting the cases to make the repair.