anyone else with this electrical problem?

[yomfwhee]

I've been having a strange electrical problem with my 2004 XB12S since I bought it used in October 2008. I dropped by the dealer last weekend to see if they knew, and the guy claimed they could fix it for under $250, which isn't a bad deal (based on my pain and frustration), but I wanted to run it by you guys to see if others have had the issue or if I might be getting a bait and switch (we can totally fix it for cheap... er, maybe not)...

About one out of every four or five times I try to start the bike, I'll lose all power when hitting the starter. No pushing buttons or turning the key will get it back. I have to disconnect and reconnect the battery cable before the speedo, gauges, and headlight gets power. When it happens, it's about even odds whether I can disconnect/reconnect and start it. One afternoon in January (I'm out in LA) I had to jump through the reconnection hoop a half-dozen times in a parking lot.

It's only current electrical alteration is the race ecm. I had tried switching to 55 watt bulbs in the lights (from the 35s that were already there), but that seemed to make the problem worse. It got a new battery November 2009.

The mechanic says that the ignition switch under the gauge cluster is fried, and that they had 3 bikes in the shop that day with the same problem. With that issue being that common, anyone else run into it?

Thank you in advance...

 

[TJBurly]

Sounds like it could just be a bad battery. The battery may charge up to 12V but when as soon as you put a load on it (i.e. the starter), the voltage drops below the min. required by the ECM and it drops out.

You could try switching out batteries or having your current battery load tested first.

 

[bguinn]

If they say that is what it is then I can't really dispute them. (If they did actually check it out). I would probably lean more towards a bad relay. They are in the fuse box. Try swapping them around, I believe they are all the same. If the problem moves then replace the relay. They are very cheap probably less than $20.

just my $.02

 

[TJBurly]

If they say that is what it is then I can't really dispute them

You are probably right I just hate dropping my bike at a dealer without first working through some of the basics first.

I have trust issues, from a bad experience with a Mazda dealer in the past. [smirk]

 

[marnej]

I have the same problem, sometimes bad start and it will clear in hours and days on the instruments km speedometer. I'll try to throw a relay as he writes "BQUINN" I'm glad I'm not alone in this problem, thanks for the advice

 

[yorkshirelad]

I recently had a similar problem. I was out on a ride when my XB12s started to splutter and eventually came to a halt. I tried to start it again but to no avail. I looked at it at the side of the road but could not find the problem. After getting home(just), after bumping it, I had the bike in bits looking for a loose electrical connection but found nothing. After asking a question on UKBEG forum some one told me to check the connection between the seat subframe with the main frame as this is used as an electrical connection. When I started to remove the bolts for inspection the speedo lit up and evrything was ok.
I cleaned up the mating surfaces and after putting it all back together everything is fine.
Dont know what bike yours is but its worth a try.

 

[lawdog]

I would load test the battery and eliminate that variable. Autozone can do it for free with their ARBST. Go in there and ask them to use the ARBST to check your bike. Pull the seat off and connect to the battery and use the inductive clamp around the battery cable. Set the CCA to 200 or whatever your battery CCA rating is and follow the instructions on the testor. It will load test the battery, then measure voltage and amperage while you start the bike. Then after the bike starts it will put a load on the system and measure the amperage output. Pretty sweet tester actually.

If the battery passes then I would start looking at bad grounds. Every ground is clean, rust free, and solid.

If the whole bike is dead when it happens then its either the battery, cables, connections, or ignition switch. If its only certain circuits then you can start looking at those circuits, wiring, fuses, and relays of the dead circuits.

I have one of these portable battery testers. They work good for small motorcycle batteries but aren't able to put a big load on larger car batteries.

 

[tuneport67ss]

I would check all ground connections. The one about te rear subframe makes a lot of since. Also make sure you check the other end of the positive cable where it hook to the starter. Your problem is a loos contact of some sort. That is why it is intermitent. You can check and see I'd it is the switch Luke they say as well. Just wiggle te wires going into it around and see if it causes your problem. Keep us posted on what you find. Before you spend $250, do a little investigating.

 

[yomfwhee]

Thank you for the replies!

A couple clarifications... The dealer mechanic who was working the counter thought it was the ignition switch a week ago when I described the problem. Today a different guy thought it might be just a loose wire, and that they would check it out. I guessed the relay a while ago (but didn't muck with them), and/or a short in the starter (because it seemed that after hitting the starter a few times, it would advance beyond a possible short and work just fine).

As I said in the post, it got a new battery in November. I forgot to mention that it seemed to not have the starting issue after I replaced the battery... until I replaced the 35's with 55 watt bulbs, after which the bike died the first time out within 100 feet of my apartment. That's when I discovered the cable disconnect/reconnect temporary fix. Prior to that incident, hitting the starter would sometimes not start, but it would never reset the odo and fuel map. As it is now, whenever I lose power, it loses the odo and the fuel map (I can tell because it runs like shit until it picks up a tune).

Thinking about the symptoms more and more, it really smells like a relay is weak. It also sounds like the weak relay got even weaker when I upgraded the headlights.


I dropped the bike at the dealer this morning, so we'll see what they think it is when I get the call. When I get it back, I'll also check the frame grounding connections, probably swap connector 77 (I read the BWB post and the google doc, some expensive and scary stuff), and squeeze some silicone into the boot around the clutch cable. If they haven't replaced the relays, I'll do those too just to be safe. Hopefully that will prevent the majority of the issues that people have been running into in these forums.


Thank you again everyone for the input!