Arrgggg! - Charging issue, driving me crazy.

[skidmarkart]

Okay, so I have had this ongoing charging issue. Not sure what to do. I have replaced the battery, regulator/rectifier, cleaned the #77 connector. Bike seems to run and charge normally when I start it and let it idle. However, when I ride, the battery is not charging. After a few starts/stops of the engine, I get the "low battery voltage" CEL.

Initially, I thought it might be the battery, and the one that was on the bike was old, so I replaced it. This did not help.
I cleaned the #77 connector well. I did notice a bit of melting (I would describe it as minor, but there none the less) around the contact points in that connector. I made sure it was clean, and tested and it seemed like everything was working well at idle.
BUT, after a few short rides, I got the "low battery voltage" CEL.
At this point I took the bike to the shop and they told me it was getting no charge at all.
I had my shop test the stator, and they said it was making electrical current properly.
So, I had them replace the regulator/rectifier.
Again, it seemed okay at idle. After a few short rides, again I got the "low battery voltage" CEL.
When the bike is idling with my meter on, everything seems normal. I get the 14v at 2500RPM. I have let the bike sit and idle, and this seems to be normal up to 15 mins. No issues.
However, after I start/stop the bike a few times, I get the CEL. Even with a brand new battery.
Checked oil for the stator, and it is very clean, set to the proper level and no burnt smell.

So, I am at a loss. It seems like the bike runs/charges normally when the bike is stopped and idling. BUT for some reason, the charging stops when I am riding. I did notice a squeaking sound, almost like birds chirping, that seems new. I can barely hear it over the engine, but it is there. Related? I am not sure. Is it possible that my short rides around town (usually 2-4 miles at a time) are not enough to re-charge the battery?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[TPEHAK]

Please provide the motorcycle year and make. Provide the motorcycle mileage.

I installed voltmeter on my motorcycle to see the voltage behavior.

 

[skidmarkart]

Please provide the motorcycle year and make. Provide the motorcycle mileage.

I installed voltmeter on my motorcycle to see the voltage behavior.

[/IMG]

Sorry, I have an '05 XB12r, 13k miles.

Yeah, I have ordered a voltmeter. The fact that this is fine at idle and then something happens when your on the road is driving me nuts. I have looked through many of the threads here about charging issues and they do not seem to answer my problem. Either the stator is not working somehow when riding or there's a connection that is messing up. I want to stress too that the melting on the #77 connector is VERY minor. Having looked through the threads and interwbes a bit, the photos I see of "melted #77 connector" are much, much worse than what I have. Still I am ready to replace the connector, due to the fact that it is cheap and would get one more possibility out of the way.

Is there a preferred replacement for that connector?

 

[user_deleted]

answers:
1. you need to determine precisely if the charging system is charging "at speed" or not. a simple left-side handlebar switchgear mounted volt gauge tells all. see my posts on same. available on the cheap at ebay and amazon. the ground can affix anywhere...the positive to switched positive only.
2. H-D/Buell part # Y1312.02A8 is the updated #77 connector dealer service part kit. it is upgrade to your stock plug assembly. in computer as still available thru any dealer
3. the only time i have ever heard "birds chirping" on an XB was from the result of the following: broken muffler to motor clamp strap/straps....loose or broken header clamp to cylinder mounts....extremely loose primary drive chain....loose or cracked rotor assembly wobbling at speed and hitting the stator assembly.

 

[skidmarkart]

This is a squeak, squeak, squeak noise at speed. Seems to go away when you slow to idle (like at a stop light). I do not know for sure, but it sounds like something rotating or not rotating when it should be. Perhaps it is time to open and check the primary?

 

[Fatty SS]

It really could be all the short trips. Has the bike performed correctly with the same riding habits in the past? Or are the short trips a new thing? A volt meter while riding is a must to diagnose this problem. If everything is working properly and it's still not charging enough before you shut down and restart, a battery tender would be a simple solution.

 

[skidmarkart]

It really could be all the short trips. Has the bike performed correctly with the same riding habits in the past? Or are the short trips a new thing? A volt meter while riding is a must to diagnose this problem. If everything is working properly and it's still not charging enough before you shut down and restart, a battery tender would be a simple solution.

Yeah, the bike seemed to work well for the first few months I had it. Granted, I was able to take more longer rides then, but it seemed like it was happy and I didn't notice it having trouble. Then one day at work, it seemed to not want to turn over. After that, I went through all of the solutions above, and I am still having this issue. I am kind of afraid to take it for a long trip now, because I don't want it to die and get stuck again. Although now that I have two extra batteries, that I have purchased trying to sort this mess, I guess I could charge those and drop them in the tank bag.

That's a bummer, if I cannot get it to charge in these short around town rides, that may be a deal breaker for me. Shame, because otherwise I love the bike.

 

[Cooter]

Maybe it's not a charging issue at all.
Maybe it's a starter draw issue. An intermittant high starter draw or weak (brand new) battery. What are the new batteries specs? Brand?
With your voltmeter on the battery, do the same test you did before. Check it at idle, rev it up, etc. and read the meter while cranking (an analog meter works MUCH better for this). You should have 9.6v or better while cranking.

 

[skidmarkart]

Maybe it's not a charging issue at all.
Maybe it's a starter draw issue. An intermittent high starter draw or weak (brand new) battery. What are the new batteries specs? Brand?
With your voltmeter on the battery, do the same test you did before. Check it at idle, rev it up, etc. and read the meter while cranking (an analog meter works MUCH better for this). You should have 9.6v or better while cranking.

The (current) battery is a brand new Yuasa YTX-14, but I have also had the same experience with a PowerStar, and Battery Tender LiIon battery. So, I am fairly certain that isn't he problem. I did not check while cranking, but everything else seems normal. Of course, I do not have an analogue meter, but I will try to track one down for this test.

I have a friend who has a 1200 Sportster. He swears the battery draw is so big to start these bikes that you just cannot replace it without riding 15-20 minutes, even when everything is working perfectly.

 

[Chicknstripn]

I've started my bike multiple times, without riding it anywhere, during engine break in and other maintanamce related activities and have had zero charging issues.
Shouldn't matter if you ride your bike 0miles or 100miles, the charging system should take care of the battery.
Sounds to me like you need to replace the #77 connector. I don't care how little I don't know about electrical systems but one thing is for sure, anything slightly melting or charred is not good.
Also, how was your stator tested? What were the test results?
Everything you've posted leads me to believe your stator is the issue.
Also, have you opened your primary yet to inspect the rotor/stator assembly?
Lunatic's #3 on his response to your posted and your discription of chirping while riding seem like probable reasons to suspect the rotor or stator are causing a charging issue.
Has the bike been through any "traumatic" events, some sort of crash, prior to these charging issues?

 

[skidmarkart]

I've started my bike multiple times, without riding it anywhere, during engine break in and other maintanamce related activities and have had zero charging issues.
Shouldn't matter if you ride your bike 0miles or 100miles, the charging system should take care of the battery.

I agree, I have never had a problem like this before. Failed R/Rs? Yes. Bad stators? Yes. But never anything that seems to be functional, then doesn't charge the battery.

Sounds to me like you need to replace the #77 connector. I don't care how little I don't know about electrical systems but one thing is for sure, anything slightly melting or charred is not good.

Yeah, I am definitely going to replace that #77 connector. Again, when I saying melting I mean the very finest amount, less than 1/64 inch, like I am not sure I could even photograph it, I just thought it might be germane to the problem. I tested the connections to see if there was anything loose on either side and everything seemed solid.

Also, how was your stator tested? What were the test results?

As far as testing the stator, I had it done by my shop. They said they "started the bike with a meter on the stator and it made power normally". That said, I do not know exactly where they plugged in to measure it. They are a pretty good shop and know me well, I trust them.

Everything you've posted leads me to believe your stator is the issue.

Also, have you opened your primary yet to inspect the rotor/stator assembly?

I have not opened the the primary yet, other than the little inspection port in the middle. I wanted to check the oil and make sure it was new and filled to the proper level (it was). And look for burnt smell (something I have experienced in the past when stators fail), there was no smell at all and from what I could see everything was perfectly clean.

Lunatic's #3 on his response to your posted and your discription of chirping while riding seem like probable reasons to suspect the rotor or stator are causing a charging issue.

I am there too, but (admittedly, I am not a mechanic and my experience is limited) I do not understand why it seems to test normally at idle, and makes around 14.4v at 2500 rpm.

Has the bike been through any "traumatic" events, some sort of crash, prior to these charging issues?

Nah, it's been babied. Never even dropped in a parking lot. Parked in a garage at home and at work. I will not say it's never seen rain, but not much.

I like drinking beer in the garage as much as the next guy (probably more), but this problem is getting ridiculous. I guess the next steps are to test the stator myself, replace the #77 connector, and open the primary to inspect.

 

[user_deleted]

but this problem is getting ridiculous.
not really. you're losing sight of the simplicity of these charging systems and for that reason can't properly diagnose the culprit. think of it in these terms: your XB charging system consists of the battery....the VR...the wiring loom....the alternator assembly....the 30 amp blade fuse inside the fusebox....the charging system relay. that's it. the alternator assembly within the primary and consists of a fixed stator with a rotor whirring around the outside of it. it is a very common and simple cycle alternator. here is what you're likely to find if you follow these steps: install a volt gauge as i've mentioned before. top of left switchgear cheap, effective, and easy. ride the bike. now watch for the voltage output to CONSISTENTLY drop below 12.2 volts. if it does and i'm betting it will....it is heat induced. what does the engine heat affect the most in this scenario? specifically the stator and the relay within fusebox. your stator most likely the guilty party in all of this.

 

[skidmarkart]

but this problem is getting ridiculous.
your stator most likely the guilty party in all of this.

Pretty sure I have tracked it down to this. I haven't split the case for the primary yet, but I have looked over everything else, and it all looks properly functional. Anyone have any advice about stators? Should I buy a factory one? Are aftermarket ones better?

 

[Cooter]

You could even easily wind your own if you want a really nice one. The stator test is outlined in the free manual you can download. There is a static OHM test to make sure nothing is grounded or shorted to each other, and there is a running test to check the A/C output of each leg.

I'm still thinking starter. Test it before you start throwing money at untested replacement parts. A buddy chased the same, run for awhile and intermittantly not want to crank issue in a 450 4-stroke quad before (same charging system). The dealer chased it for years with batteries, stators, VR's.

Starter brushes were carboned up and caused a intermittant high draw. Heck, take it apart and clean them yourself. It's free.