CR won't start. Think it's the starter.

[Beau]

Here's the story. I tried to start the bike last night, 09 1125CR, after not riding it for over a week, and it gave a cannon shot backfire that probably woke the dead. I had my headphones in and (probably foolishly) kept trying to start it. It backfired a little one other time a few months ago, but it fired up on a second attempt, and normally it starts right up. This time it did not start and I ended up killing the battery. Today, in the light, I took the intake apart to find that the backfire blew the throttle bodies off their clamps. I put everything back together properly and reset the tps. I hooked up jumper cables and did not start the car. It wouldn't do anything when I pushed the ignition switch. I can hear and feel that the starter relay under the back seat works. And I switched it out with the AUX one just to be sure. The starter doesn't do anything. I checked the fuses, banged on the starter, checked the diagnostic page, and used a small light with wires on it to check for power on the wire coming out of the starter. It seems there's no power at the starter, and I hit the battery terminals with the light to confirm it worked. I tried to find a new starter relay tonight but couldn't. I'll check Harley tomorrow before I start looking for a starter.

Any Ideas? Anything I did wrong or overlooked?

 

[Beau]

Also, on the diagnostic page, it says the starter relay status is 1, as opposed to 0. Not sure what that means...

 

[go cytocis]

You had such an odd coincidence of things happening at once that it's hard to know where to start. The intense backfire is a first clue something's wrong, but hard to see how that would relate to a bad starter. I agree the relay may be a culprit in your subsequent problem.
Kind of sounds like you've got a couple issues going on at once...

 

[Beau]

Like what? It almost always starts right away and runs like a raped ape. Things aren't supposed to back fire, of course, but I don't really get any trouble out of the bike. I thought that after the back fire, and another failed start attempt, I'd flooded it, so I hammered on the starter pretty good and now it doesn't work.

 

[go cytocis]

Like what?

If I had to guess, based on how I read your description, a) something was preventing ignition (ie lack of spark or compression), which caused b) an unburned fuel build up, which caused c) the massive backfire. Then the continued cranking caused d) the starter to overheat & fry.

Sounds to me like you have 2 problems:
- the fried starter
- the original problem getting the engine to fire

 

[Beau]

I ran it for a while, few weeks, without the inner airbox. This was the first time trying to start it with the inner box on and I didn't reset the tps before trying to start. I wonder if it wasn't used to the restriction causing the backfire?

 

[Beau]

It was the starter solenoid. I jumped it with a screwdriver and the starter worked fine. But it still won't start. So what would cause it to work fine, sit for a week or so, then massively backfire on a start attempt and not start anymore? Should I change the oil to see if there's shavings or chunks?

 

[poinographer]

Maybe, if you can explain first how shavings or chunks could cause a backfire and failure to start.

 

[Beau]

My thought was that they would be the result, not the cause. Perhaps the backfire caused such high pressure in whichever cylinder that it broke something in the guts and my repeated start attempts are only making it worse. Resulting in junk being in the oil, and at least giving me some kind of information as to the problem. Because right now I'm fishing in the dark and I don't know what else to do.

 

[go cytocis]

Now that you've hot the starter working again, your original problem could be one of many things.

You're still getting fuel (otherwise you wouldn't have been backfiring) but perhaps you got some bad gas or have dirty injectors). Your mixture might be off due to a bad or mis-adjusted sensor.

Or it could be that you're not getting a good spark due to fouled plugs, old leads, or other weak ignition components.

You may also have low compression although if you say the bike normally runs like a top, it's probably ok.

I'd start with fresh clean fuel then move to diagnosing the ignition system if that fails...

 

[poinographer]

It seems to me that the backfiring engine found the weakest link was the throttle body connection, which is why that link failed. With that (unusual) path to relieve the overpressure, I would be very surprised if there were any internal damage to your motor from the backfire. However, if you really have no other hypothesis as to what is the cause (and I'm no help in that arena), then, yeah, check out what you think might have been an effect...

 

[Beau]

So I replaced the starter relay, starter solenoid, and rear spark plug. No change. The new relay clicks but the solenoid does not. It was on cables to my car to rule out the battery that I also replaced a few months ago. I'm out of ideas.

 

[Beau]

So I had a shop come pick up the bike. They got the starter working by putting the headlight fuse back in. I took it out so the headlight wasn't killing the battery while I was messing with it. Turns out I really shot myself in the foot. They replaced the relay I replaced too. But it still wouldn't start. I brought them the stock ecm and after some trouble it started and ran. So I said I'd come pick it up tomorrow. Hopefully I can send the ebr ecm in and have them take a look at it.

 

[Beau]

I rode it home today! But it ran like ****. I rode it with a k&n and Keda RT-3 and the stock computer. I had also replaced only the rear spark plug. It felt like it was running on just one cylinder. It would accelerate slower and then not hit the powerband at around 4k like normal. If I slowly rolled the throttle on it would eventually feel normal with power but it backfired a lot. I put the race ecm back in when I got home and it seemed to run ok, but I haven't ridden it yet.

Would you say that it's performance on the stock ecm with the power adders was normal-ish? I really don't want to have to rotate the engine to change the front plug.

 

[Shawns]

Well that sucks. Love my Rt-3 and that people hate the noise.

 

[Beau]

Got to ride with the race ecm and it's back to pretty much normal. I think the front plug needs to be changed though. The rear one was black and yucky when I swapped it.

 

[riyarobin]

Check the starter solenoid and make sure the cables are clean.