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DDFI-2 to DDFI-3 conversion

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pnuts

Well-known member
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May 30, 2011
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65
Location
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Hi

I have a 2004 Buell XB12S and I've been playing with the idea of converting my DDFI-2 ECM to DDFI-3 ECM. I've been searching for any info on this but all I found was a Youtube video of EricZ turbo Buell with this conversion.

Anyways, if I get a DDFI-3 ECM from 2008-2010 Buell will it work with all the sensors in 2004 bike or do I need to change something? I know I need to get some connectors and do a little wiring harness to connect new ECM to existing wiring but anything else I should know about? I found all the ECM pins from ECM-Spy site so it should be pretty easy to do the wiring.

One of the reasons to do this is that I'd like to have individual front 02 and front AFV to play with. After all I've done all kinds of modifications to my bike so I'd be interested to try this.

Thanks
 
Hello mate, one of the experts will chime in as i dont know much about `04 models but i would imagine the very least you would need would be the Ecm, full wiring harness, later throttle body etc if it is indeed even possible! and it was (maybe late`09) the `10 model year that had the front 02 sensor fitted so i guess you would need the stuff from that year but please check before you buy as i am by no means sure! but good luck anyway with your project! :eagerness:
 
I know that it's possible to get a front 02 to at least late -08 bikes, don't know about early -08's. It just needs some ECM modifications. Of course I would need that second 02 and wiring for it.

I was just wondering if DDFI-3 would work with older style crank sensors etc... I believe there were some changes to that in newer models. Have to do some more researching about it
 
There is no older style crank sensor. DDFI2 uses a cam sensor, and thus the older crank does not have teeth to allow a crank sensor to gain signal. The only way to make DDFI3 work on the older bikes is to swap in an 08-10 motor, wiring harness, and ECM. Very few of the motor components are shared between the 03-07 bikes and the 08-10 bikes.
 
No, you can reprogram a DDFI-3 ECM to work with all the stock DDFI-2 sensors. You will gain better fuel and ignition mapping resolution as well as individual cylinder AFV correction, but these additional features will only help if you tune it properly. A DDFI-2 ECM is plenty capable of great control of an XB engine. In other words, you have to be a nerd with plenty of time and experience on your hands to tackle and successfully execute this conversion.
 
You could change the connector. Just throwing out an option, not like anyone is actually going to go through all this work unless going to Eric's level
 
Thanks for all the answers!

Phelan: Yeah, I had a little confusion in my mind about cam sensor in older xb engines and accidentally was talking about crank sensor.


I know I can get just new connectors and make a little conversion wiring harness between original harness and new ECM.


EricZ: Is that repogram of DDFI-3 (old style sensors) possible to do with Tunerpro or does it require more special programs? Been playing with Tunerpro for a while now. I know that the original ECM of 2004 XB is good enough with proper tune but after all, if I can do things differently and better, why not try it :) Of course it's all up to if my skills are good enough to do that kind of programming to new ECM. It's just something I've been playing with in my mind for a while now...
 
Phelan said:
...The only way to make DDFI3 work on the older bikes is to swap in an 08-10 motor, wiring harness, and ECM...
Click to expand...
Thankfully this is not true.

AZmidget91 said:
You could change the connector. Just throwing out an option, not like anyone is actually going to go through all this work unless going to Eric's level
Click to expand...

D3E-D2B_01S.jpg


DDFI-3 ECM has a reserved pin for cam position sensor input (Gray[3]]).
The live data parameter Din[0] reflects the CMP state.
 
Any other updates on anyone doing this?

The ECM (DDFI-3) will need to be reprogrammed to ignore a missing crank sensor. I want to swap to the DDFI-3 as well. ECM controlled idle dual O2 sensors, better resolution on the maps <--I've read that, haven't verified myself. I have a new throttle body from the 08+ for a 9. Just trying to figure out the coding side.
I know there is no performance benefit. If I ever have to redo the engine I'd get a 08+ just for the crank sensor.

I'm been pondering on how to emulate a Vtwin on the bench.
ECMSPY has a CPS signal generator. Didn't know that till just recently. My initial idea was to use a Jim Stim. However I'm not sure the buell wheel pattern. Once the wheel pattern is found, everything else should be just resistors.
 
It's easier than that. A DDFI-3 ECM can take the DDFI-2 style cam sensor input, no engine mods needed:eagerness:

Give the guys at Buelltooth.com a call. They might even have an adaptor harness to convert the ECM plugs for you, but you didn't hear it from me!:angel:
 
Cooter said:
It's easier than that. A DDFI-3 ECM can take the DDFI-2 style cam sensor input, no engine mods needed:eagerness:

Give the guys at Buelltooth.com a call. They might even have an adaptor harness to convert the ECM plugs for you, but you didn't hear it from me!:angel:
Click to expand...

Well, current project, made me rethink this again.
Question I cant answer is what will the DDFI3 ECM do without a crank sensor input? Does it go into a 'limp home' mode? I's would think a little coding needs tweaking somewhere to solve this, but I don't have a 08+ ecm to test this yet.
For parts I do have a 09XB9SX TB complete assembly and just got a 09 12R harness....

I did email them and waiting for a response back.....
 
rb70383 said:
Well, current project, made me rethink this again.
Question I cant answer is what will the DDFI3 ECM do without a crank sensor input? Does it go into a 'limp home' mode? I's would think a little coding needs tweaking somewhere to solve this, but I don't have a 08+ ecm to test this yet.
For parts I do have a 09XB9SX TB complete assembly and just got a 09 12R harness....

I did email them and waiting for a response back.....
Click to expand...

I know this thread is older than dirt but I was curious if you ever reached a conclusion on this. I'm looking to do the same thing for an FI build I'm trying to sort out and it seems its getting harder to find these sorts of answers with each passing year.
 
Cooter said:
It seems like a TON of trouble to gain what... idle control? Sure some better map resolution too but DDFI-2 bikes run just fine.

This guys done it for some custom projects:
Scroll to the bottom
https://www.rev-mo.com
Click to expand...

I asked Florida Dave about this a couple years ago as the rumor was that he offered a conversion. I believe his answer to me was basically that he stopped doing them because they were more hassle than what they were worth.

DDFI2 or 3 doesnt care if you have leaking intake seals, low fuel pressure or a seized piston. Oh! but you dont need to use ECMDroid or ECMSpy to reset the TPS! Thats a great reason to convert. My personal favorite is to tell CoOter to hold the ignition cable and crack the throttle a few times.

If youre going to do a conversion, you need to first resolve the DDFI2 issue or be supremely confident in your diagnostic/troubleshooting skills. Its amazing how much work people will do to circumvent solving the actual problem.

To wit: https://www.youtube.com/@JustRolledIn
 

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