DDFI 3 Factory tps hard reset procedure

[seancrete]

I would like to know what the original factory procedure was/is if anyone knows. I'm not looking for the typical user "twist 3 times" reset. I need to understand the zeroing and calibration that was used with an '08+ TPS with the epoxied set screw.

I know this is not typical knowledge.

S

 

[ich]

Wer erzählt dir so eine Scheisse? Es gibt keinen TPS hard reset.

 

[BambamXB12r]

^^^
"Who told you such a ****? There is no TPS hardreset."
For those of us who don't know German.(almost everyone)

 

[BambamXB12r]

This is straight out of the factory service manual and to my knowledge there is no other way.

 

[BambamXB12r]

This is straight out of the factory service manual and to my knowledge there is no other way.

View attachment 1477

for some reason the pic of coming out blurry for me but it is the twist 3 times thing you don't want to hear. When done correctly your TPS should read 3.7 - 4.2 when plugged in to a program(ECMDroid,tuner pro,ect.)

 

[mrlogix]

what you are referencing by hard reset is using software to enter offsets for the read values rather than the 'learn' procedure way 'with the twist three times' procedure. The manual referenced procedure works fine, don't try to re-invent the wheel is what Ich is trying to get to in his own little nazi way. LOL

 

[AZmidget91]

Why do you feel you need a hard reset? Are you having other problems?

 

[Cooter]

Maybe crush a Cialis and put it in the tank?

The post '08 'twist three times' lets the computer set the proper correction factor (+ or - of actual) where the range is, so the actual doesn't matter (as long as it's not pushing the TPS past it's physical limits). That's why there should never be a need for a "hard reset".

Are you asking about a factory 'zero' starting point? When I assemble a TB from scratch, I remove the idle screw, close the butterflies all the way completely, install the TPS and adjust until you just start to get an increase in it's reading, then epoxy the screw. That way you know the TPS isn't beyond it's range. Now you can set the minimum blade angle for idle and 'twist three times' to make the computer set the right correction factor.

The sensor has a bigger range than the throttle body so if you set idle, WOT will be fine. You want it's 'zero' to be near the bottom of the scale on the TPS, not on it's hard stop.

 

[ich]

When I assemble a TB from scratch, I remove the idle screw

Echt wahr, das machst Du bei einem TB für DDFI-3?
Boah ey, ein Wunder.

 

[seancrete]

wow , ich fühle mich so geehrt, mit einem beleidigenden Antwort vom ehrwürdigen Ich zierte sein ! Twice even!!


Thank You Cooter, Yes, the factory "zero' starting point. That is just the info I am needing. I apologize for my syntax error.

I currently have the TB fully disassembled (injector cleaning(3% and 4% improvement in flow) intake seals(James,blue, w/lip and Hylomar used extensively on all potential air leak areas) and ready to go back together. I had done a test fit and the 8 bit value and the angle value were not what I thought they should be. At idle position the angle was reading 2.8 and the 8 bit tps/load was 22/23.

When the tps angle reads 3.7 to 4.2 like Bambam mentions above (ty) the tps 8 bit/load should be closer to 15, correct?

Also, just to be clear,
1) "close the butterfly all the way completely" means till it sticks a little bit in the bore?

2) "install the TPS" is just pressing the TPS sensor on to the shaft and bolting it tight? It has no play on the bolts.

3) "Now you can set the minimum blade angle for idle" Is this an additional step? Is this not what was done in the step, "adjust until you just start to get an increase in it's reading, then epoxy the screw"?

Thank you, Sean

 

[seancrete]

...smirk..

 

[ich]

DDFI-3 hat keine Leerlaufeinstellschraube, sondern die Drosselklappe ist im Leerlauf vollständig geschlossen. So viel zu dem "Expertenwissen" mancher Forenteilnehmer.

Der TPS hat in Leerlaufstellung gegenüber seiner Endposition eine Auslenkung von 5-11°. Das interessiert das ECM aber nicht ansatzweise, weil es nur diejenige Spannung zu wissen benötigt, die bei voll geschlossener Drosselklappe anliegt, um genau diese Position zu erkennen.

 

[mrlogix]

yes wolfgang ist der Wert nicht Null ist , damit es nicht Fehler auf einem Drahtbruch , mangelnde Signal

 

[seancrete]

Yes I know the DDFI3 does not have an adjustable hard stop "idle screw" like the earlier models, as the air volume needed at idle is supplemented through the IAC manifold. It does, however, have an epoxied set screw in the exact same location. Also, "completely closed" is a bit of a misnomer as the butterfly will noticeably stick in place if pressed to this point and does not go this far in rotation during normal operation, thus the supplimental air flow from the IAC circuit. Furthermore , the throttle cam does indeed snap "closed" to a factory set position on the previously mentioned epoxied set screw.

 

[ich]

Also, "completely closed" is a bit of a misnomer as the butterfly will noticeably stick in place if pressed to this point and does not go this far in rotation during normal operation, thus the supplimental air flow from the IAC circuit. Furthermore , the throttle cam does indeed snap "closed" to a factory set position on the previously mentioned epoxied set screw.

Wenn Drosselklappe in Leerlaufstellung und das IAC geschlossen sind, geht der Motor aus, damit ist die Drosselklappe in Leerlaufstellung vollständig geschlossen. Die genaue Position der Drosselklappe interessiert nicht, weil Stellglied für die Leerlaufregelung ist das IAC, nicht die Drosselklappe, und Regelgröße ist die Leerlaufdrehzahl, nicht die Drosselklappenposition. Die Drosselklappe ist federbelastet, liegt aus diesem Grund geschlossen immer am Drosselklappenanschlag an und benötigt deshalb keine besonderen Maßnahmen im Betrieb. Sonst müsste auch bei DDFI-2 der Leerlauf nur durch schlagartiges Schliessen der Drosselklappe erreicht werden, was definitiv nicht der Fall ist. Das TPS benötigt keine besondere Einstellung beim Einbau, der Sensor ist ebenfalls Federbelastet und, wie schon erwähnt, ein paar Grad ausgelenkt, damit in fixierter Position bezogen auf die Drosselklappenwelle. Aus TPS Zero Voltage, TPS Degrees Range und TPS Voltage Range wird gemäß der allgemeinen Geradengleichung (y=m*x + n) im ECM die Postion der Drosseklappe bestimmt. Jegliches Gerede über einen TPS hard reset ist Unsinn.

 

[mrlogix]

The Furhrer has spoken

 

[seancrete]

All very true. Maybe even the thing about der Drosseklappe! whatever that is...

Oh and the equation. I don't know which part of my brain to put that in.

The TPS sensor on this '09 in not spring loaded. It rotates freely. The TPS sensor on my '06 is spring loaded.

The main thing I am wanting to come to an understanding about is why at idle position with a noted low TPS degree of 2.3 do I have a relatively high TPS 8bit value of no lower than 19? When previously running it would idle at 15 and have a degree value from 3.8-4.2.

Currently 2.3=19 , 2.8=20 , 3.1=21 , 3.3=22 , 3.8=23 , 4.0=24 , 4.5=25 ect.

My main concern is that the current low TPS values do not match up with the previous fuel maps.

I could put it together and see if it runs like it is but I would rather only do it once.

S

 

[Cooter]

I never claimed to be an 'expert', and no one on the internet should assume so (about anyone). Cavete stultus scripto:black_eyed:

1) Yes, I believe the epoxied screw holds the blades, just barely off of sticking in the bore.
2) Yes, I thought the TPS was physically adjustable, I guess it's not :stupid: vote down for me...
3) Yes, But i'm used to EFI bikes that use a minimum throttle angle (700rpm and the IAC controls the balance of the idle speed). ich says the Buell IAC is 100% responsible for the idle with the throttle blades at full stop. I believe him, he knows WAY more about Buell's than I do! My throttle body assembly procedure has worked very well for me (but I should have mentioned it's not Buell specific).

Since ich says the throttle blades are closed 100% at idle (IAC only) and the TPS isn't physically adjustable, then bolt together, twist three times, and ride

Edit: I can't help you with the blade angle before and after difference. One would think the TPS reset procedure would set the idle (degree AND 8-bit value) at a set starting point, and increase to WOT. Are you testing the TPS in your hand and sweeping it, or is it bolted to the TB?

The different degree VS. 8-bit value is question for our German friend...

 

[seancrete]

The values noted above are with TPS sensor bolted to TB. TB not mounted to bike but held in hand. Values have been noted using TunerPro RT.

BTW, I have done the three twist reset while holding the TB and it has not changed the values to track differently.

Some other things I noticed a little while ago is while the cam is at the WOT stop it tracks correctly to 85 degrees and 255 TPS.

The values do not change till there is about 1/8" maybe even 3/16" of rotation off of the stop.

Also the butterfly at WOT is past 90*

S

 

[ich]

The TPS sensor on this '09 in not spring loaded.

Stimmt, mein Fehler, der TPS für DDFI-3 arbeitet form-, nicht kraftschlüssig. Ein Grund mehr, warum ein TPS hardware resest Unsinn ist.

the cam is at the WOT stop it tracks correctly to 85 degrees and 255 TPS.

85° stehen im EEPROM als Öffnungswinkel, deswegen wird das so gezeigt.

the TPS reset procedure would set the idle (degree AND 8-bit value) at a set starting point

TPS ändert sich in Abhängigkeit von IAC.