EBR master cylinder?

[Cooter]

Upgrading the brakes on the STT to all EBR stuff. Rotor/mounting kit and master.

Both of these are supposed to be OE 1190 masters. Anyone know why the inlet is different? Color is different too, but the bore size is the same.



Maybe an RX/SX thing?

 

[Barrett]

that's precisely it, shaughn. the m/c on the left in your top pic with black finish is the RX m/c.
the one on the right is the SX m/c.

they're both nissin sourced and pretty sexy.

 

[Disturbed1]

I have ordered Nissin components for several bikes over the years. Typically they only have three varriant colors. I don't know if it was a production thing, or they gave me a OE bike spec'd one off of a currnet production run, but one time when I ordered Black they sent me one similar to the color of the one on the right.

Anyone know why the inlet is different?

They both look to be Radial Types, just the one having the reservoir coming out the side is a newer version.
(One on Right or lighter color. Which is all they manufacture now in a Radial.)

"The vertically angled body lets the lever flow fluid directly through the master cylinder giving it a sharper response."

At least that is what Nissin says in it's brochure... Follow the link to the two different styles.

For refference.

https://www.shindypro.com/brake_mckits.html

 

[34nineteen]

I have ordered Nissin components for several bikes over the years. Typically they only have three varriant colors. I don't know if it was a production thing, or they gave me a OE bike spec'd one off of a currnet production run, but one time when I ordered Black they sent me one similar to the color of the one on the right.

Anyone know why the inlet is different?

They both look to be Radial Types, just the one having the reservoir coming out the side is a newer version.
(One on Right or lighter color. Which is all they manufacture now in a Radial.)

"The vertically angled body lets the lever flow fluid directly through the master cylinder giving it a sharper response."

At least that is what Nissin says in it's brochure... Follow the link to the two different styles.

For refference.

https://www.shindypro.com/brake_mckits.html

One is radial, one is axial. I prefer the feel of an axial m/c over a radial one in most cases.

 

[mike lowary]

I went from the 5/8 axial to the 3/4 radial on the ztl2. Mind blowing

 

[Cooter]

Thanks so much for the awesome info! Ya they are both 19mm (3/4") Radial M/c's identical except for where the reservoir feeds the masters piston, and the RX/SX difference explains the fluid reservoir bracket confusion I was having (Thank you Barrett).

Hey Disturbed, where ya been man? I doubt I'm fast enough to feel the difference in the side inlet like their brochure says, it is a little more of a PITA to bleed. Everything was dry on install and my levers are pretty far rolled forward though, I normally loosen them and level the master out to bleed them.

BUT, like Mike Looowwraay said, swapping to the radial M/c (even the same size) was a bigger difference that I thought too, hence the change over. I couldn't even get my bike to stop with a ZTL-2 and a 5/8" master:upset:!

34:19, what makes you like the axial system better? It is a cleaner look for sure, but that would be an anomaly

 

[Cooter]

And why the heck is such a simple part so much dang money if you go shopping at Brembo?!

I would call total BS, but I learned an important lesson about that with the Oberon Slave. Simply a better machined part at the same dimension made the clutch pull HALF of what it was:up:

 

[Disturbed1]

Hey Disturbed, where ya been man?

Hey Cooter, Just lurking around... Only dispensing info if I have something relevant to say.

I will say this… Your pic’s confused me because I thought the left one was an axial at first. But after looking at the orientation from a handlebar perspective. I knew they were both radials. (Rod / Plunger Parallel to bar = Axial, Rod / Plunger Perpendicular to bar = Radial.) You got to get a better photographer man... maybe that special someone you use at glamor shots…

I doubt I'm fast enough to feel the difference in the side inlet like their brochure says, it is a little more of a PITA to bleed

Yeah, I know about the bleeding of the system. I have the old radial version, easy. New radial version, PIA. Truth be told, with a grain of salt, my peeps told me that they changed the design because of a flood of Chinese knock-offs. That, and looking more like Brembo's, not for actual performance.

And for clarification purposes, I am only talking about actual Nissin brake master cylinders. Not an OE bike manufacture that has sourced Nissin to manufacture there braking components to meet their design specifications and fitment.

I normally loosen them and level the master out to bleed them.

I usually bleed somewhat backwards. Have an empty reservoir (1 quart clear jug.) higher than the bikes handlebars coming from it with a hose attached to the Brake Caliper Bleeder. (Clear hose filled completely with brake fluid with no air.) Then crack the brake caliper bleeder and pump the brake lever while adding fluid to the master cylinder reservoir . (Yes some will drip around the bleeder, so get a rag.) Every time the master cylinder lever is pumped it will add fluid to the brake system. And because the brake caliper has a hose with brake fluid attached to, it cannot draw air back into the system when you release the brake master cylinder lever. If you use a clear hose on the brake caliper bleeder, you can watch your entire brake system flush out the old fluid up to the 1 quart jug.

I can bleed the entire brake system in about 5 minutes with fresh fluid, and it works very well with the Buell / EBR mono-block brake caliper.:up:

 

[Cooter]

Ya know BuellXB sideways pic fun! LOL

Ya, I have spent too much $$ for an "Ohlins" steering damper before that was definitley NOT. Sucks to be suckered

Good idea on the bleed, I'll try that So funny how the simplest system (car vs bike) can be the toughest to bleed! I'm normally gravity bleed-then-vacuum guy so I'm used to putting teflon tape on the bleeder screw threads, carefully avoiding the hole. I am surprised Erik didn't put another bleed on the inside side of the caliper. Once the dry system is fully bled it's an easy process to even swap fluid once a year, but man, that first time can be a bear!

Thanks for the help:angel:

 

[Disturbed1]

Once the dry system is fully bled it's an easy process to even swap fluid once a year

You hit that nail right on the head...:up:

Possibly the best thing to do for a Buell or EBR is change the fluid early and often. These single large block brake calipers wreak havoc with the brake fluid. (It is why they put the air scoop on the EBRs.) There is just no place for the heat to go with all of the mass involved. (Between the large thick rotor and single brake caliper.) I have systematically changed and modified different components on the front braking system, but the biggest improvement is to always change the fluid...

Since you brought up Brembo's. Have you ever tried their brake fluid? I can say, even in a non-Brembo system that stuff is good. I was at the track and getting a lot of fade in my zuk, and the guy in the paddock next to me said try the Brembo fluid. I shrugged my shoulders, but he gave me some and it was like night and day. I don't know what those Italians put in that stuff. Maybe it’s the olive oil they put on everything.

Good Luck my friend with your braking needs…

 

[34nineteen]

34:19, what makes you like the axial system better? It is a cleaner look for sure, but that would be an anomaly

I just like the feel of the lever action on an axial setup (usually). I think a lot of the hype to go to radial spurs from the radial mounting of calipers to modern forks. I do think radial is the better way to mount caliper, but I think most people are sold on the "radial is better hype". Granted, I'm not going to switch out a perfectly fine working radial m/c for a axial.

I also prefer m/c's with integrated reservoirs for the aesthetics.

 

[Cooter]

Makes sense. Anything even slightly off in the brake system would be a bigger feel-difference so it's hard to compare back to back. I would think the difference would be so small a Luddite like me could never tell, but a the radial M/C on the Buell seems tighter, like less lever movement to activation. Maybe it's in my head? Thats why I brought up the Oberon thing. I never would have guessed it would have made any difference, especially a measurable one that big!

I like the integrated reservoir for a street bike too, much cleaner looking.

 

[rb70383]

integrated reservoir? Havent seen those, but haven't been looking.
Cooter, seems the brake rotor hardware came in? My set is on the way as well.
I have a the ZTL2 setup and the EBR mc to swap onto my 9R. I like the feel of the brakes on the EBR vs the 'Bolt but that is probably apples to lemmings comparo.

On the subject of EBR M/C's and being in the middle of trying to upgrade the rear master cylinder on the XB, what about an EBR rear MC? Cooter found the thread I convinced myself that I read. AZ midget's rear mc upgrade. That thread suggests an 11mm rear MC offers a good ratio.

Cooter, Being a Luddite, why would you want to embrace the technology of better brakes? :black_eyed:

 

[Cooter]

Integrated, like the stock Buell linear ones. Reservoir and piston are all in one casting.

Thats good to hear about the hardware, There's at least 2 versions of that EBR hardware that I know of and I have 'almost' complete sets of both. GRRRR! I HATE missing hardware...

Not that the ZTL were even that bad but the whole EBR M/C, EBR hardware, ZTL2 upgrade made a huge difference to the STT. One finger lock-up if I was a crazy person. Proper bedding on the EBC HH street pads and I love it!

OK. Maybe Luddite was a little strong, LOL. But it's still decade-old tech:black_eyed:

 

[34nineteen]

^^^^ this is the guy who still has to look on the floorboard of his car for a high beam switch.
^^^^ this is the guy who pumps the gas on his rental car before starting it
^^^^ this is the guy who has a car that still runs on leaded gas
^^^^ this is the guy who still thinks an auto transmission only needs 3 speeds
^^^^ this is the guy who misses vent windows
^^^^ this is the guy who knows how to avoid vapor lock
^^^^ this is the guy who still wants 10 coats of lacquer on his paint job
^^^^ this is the guy who is upset that Gabriel doesnt make Hi Jacker shocks anymore.

 

[34nineteen]

Aw man, thats a sweet ride. You should put on a set of traction bars and lake pipes.

 

[Cooter]

WHAAAA??? GABRIEL DOES NOT MAKE HIJACKER SHOCKS ANYMORE!?!?!?! You lie!!!

Next you'll try to tell me Santa isn't real:upset:

 

[rb70383]

Whew!!! That wasn't me you were talking about. I had all them boxes checked.

 

[Cooter]

I used all seven of my fingers, while nodding "mmm, hmmm, yup". So glad he's LYING about #8, Right!!

Right?

Say it aint so! It's almost time to replace mine

 

[34nineteen]

All it need is a Keep On Trucking bumper sticker.