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ZTL2 upgrade - master cylinder with handguards
- Thread starter RISL
- Start date
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34nineteen
Well-known member
Not a problem for "high side Cooter"
outthere
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2018
- Messages
- 670
another project
Sorry mr Cooter, just thought you send the clutch master on purpose. Maybe interchangeable? But apparantly not. And a lot of people in the Netherlands do not like to buy from Twin. Their prices are extremely high. Buying in the States + shipping is often much cheaper (you know we're cheap skates here).
I'll order from your site of the ocean, probably from St. Paul this time.
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mike lowary
Well-known member
Same ol project. Swapped skins from yellow to black. I like it much better
34nineteen
Well-known member
If you are looking to save money, motorcycles are not a good idea.
I've found Twin's prices to be fair and have bought several things from them over the years. Martin is a great guy.
One thing to bear in mind is that Twin is actively developing and bringing parts back into production for Buells. St Paul and most other vendors are just draining the last of the Buell parts from the Harley warehouses. Once those warehouses run dry on parts, they will likely be done selling Buell parts. Who would you rather support?
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Not saying that I'm trying to save money, but I don't like to pay a lot more than necessary. And I get your point about developing. And yes, Martin (over here, we call him Bud) is a great guy, last time I spoke to him, they were developing the front modules for the Lightning models.
Still, in my opinion they ask a lot more than what something should cost. And the bigger things are outsourced by them. That's why a lot of people here try to avoid them. They skip Twin and go straight to the source (for example rebuilding engines) or do it theirselves. But it's really going offtopic now. I am going to order the EBR radial MC this weekend. Anyone who fitted this with handguards?
As soon as I have received the part, I will make something so I can fit the handguard with this MC and make some pictures or a how-to.
Still, in my opinion they ask a lot more than what something should cost. And the bigger things are outsourced by them. That's why a lot of people here try to avoid them. They skip Twin and go straight to the source (for example rebuilding engines) or do it theirselves. But it's really going offtopic now. I am going to order the EBR radial MC this weekend. Anyone who fitted this with handguards?
As soon as I have received the part, I will make something so I can fit the handguard with this MC and make some pictures or a how-to.
34nineteen
Well-known member
Meh, we go off topic all the time here. Especially MR COOTER.
I get it that some things are better to utilize other resources for, and applaud that you Scandinavian types are resourceful enough to figure it out. :up: Most of the people coming through here cant be trusted to get their shoes on the correct foot in the morning.
As far as the radial master cylinder with handguards go, you may be the first. Like MR COOTER said, the Buell ones attach to a longer lever pivot pin and use a bar end attachment setup. Its pretty simple.
Let us know so we can heckle the others after you and point them to this thread.
I get it that some things are better to utilize other resources for, and applaud that you Scandinavian types are resourceful enough to figure it out. :up: Most of the people coming through here cant be trusted to get their shoes on the correct foot in the morning.
As far as the radial master cylinder with handguards go, you may be the first. Like MR COOTER said, the Buell ones attach to a longer lever pivot pin and use a bar end attachment setup. Its pretty simple.
Let us know so we can heckle the others after you and point them to this thread.
Just started with this mod, first the simple things, so I have a new front brake rotor and the ZTL2 caliper is on.
The EBR radial master cylinder is on the handlebar too. I had ordered the set-up for an 1190RX, but the bracket for the brake fluid reservoir is useless on a handlebar, it only fits the EBR clip-on. Also, the SX has an other bracket for mounting the MC to the handlebar, it has an mirror mount point on it. I ordered that one and it came in today.
The hand guard is normally fitted to the pivot point of the brake lever, but the lever of the EBR is much longer.
In another topic on this forum I saw a picture a hand guard fitted to a Japanese radial MC on a Buell with some aluminium strips going to the pivot point, but I don 't like the 'homemade' look of it.
Luckily, the bottom connection point of the hand guard is straight under the M4 bolt of the brake switch. I machined a little bushing of black Delrin to create some distance.
The top connection is still not connected, I will make it to the mirror. I also ordered a smaller, black brake fluid reservoir with a vertical mounting hole, so I will make one bracket between the hand guard and the mirror point that also has a place for the reservoir to go on.
I either use a smal saw and a piece of black Delrin or my 3D printer (no worries, I am not tpehak in disguise). Still learning to work with that printer, so I don 't know of I can make a strong bracket with it. It also requires a lot of measuring and drawing, so it will take more time too.
I'll update when I make more progress.
Still to do:
- top bracket
- brake line original EBR is too short)
- brake switch connection
The EBR radial master cylinder is on the handlebar too. I had ordered the set-up for an 1190RX, but the bracket for the brake fluid reservoir is useless on a handlebar, it only fits the EBR clip-on. Also, the SX has an other bracket for mounting the MC to the handlebar, it has an mirror mount point on it. I ordered that one and it came in today.
The hand guard is normally fitted to the pivot point of the brake lever, but the lever of the EBR is much longer.
In another topic on this forum I saw a picture a hand guard fitted to a Japanese radial MC on a Buell with some aluminium strips going to the pivot point, but I don 't like the 'homemade' look of it.
Luckily, the bottom connection point of the hand guard is straight under the M4 bolt of the brake switch. I machined a little bushing of black Delrin to create some distance.
The top connection is still not connected, I will make it to the mirror. I also ordered a smaller, black brake fluid reservoir with a vertical mounting hole, so I will make one bracket between the hand guard and the mirror point that also has a place for the reservoir to go on.
I either use a smal saw and a piece of black Delrin or my 3D printer (no worries, I am not tpehak in disguise). Still learning to work with that printer, so I don 't know of I can make a strong bracket with it. It also requires a lot of measuring and drawing, so it will take more time too.
I'll update when I make more progress.
Still to do:
- top bracket
- brake line original EBR is too short)
- brake switch connection
Don't know how to make the pictures bigger.
Thanks for all the help with this mod. I really like this one. Next winter: XB9 primary in my XB12 (shorter ratio) and make the transmission cover black wrinkle paint.
View attachment 16396
View attachment 16397
View attachment 16398
Thanks for all the help with this mod. I really like this one. Next winter: XB9 primary in my XB12 (shorter ratio) and make the transmission cover black wrinkle paint.
View attachment 16396
View attachment 16397
View attachment 16398
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Cooter
Well-known member
Looks like the conversion looks great, glad you got it done:eagerness:
I noticed a couple things in the pictures you'll want to check. The brake line still looks much too short. Unload the front suspension and still should have quite a bit of a bend in it. If it's 'almost long enough' and trying to be almost straight with the suspension extended, the obviously aftermarket line will have problems... soon
Personally I unload the front, and make sure the center of the banjo is at least 75mm longer than the inlet hole of the caliper at a minimum. That way the line isn't flexing a lot with suspension movement.
Also, I have used that exact off-shore brake fluid reservoir on a couple projects.Sure, it's cheap and looks nice, BUT twice now I have had weird brake issues that were solved by changing it. It would bleed OK but wouldn't pull fluid into the master during normal use/brake pad wear and the lever would go soft. Twice, it was the little plastic 90* fitting on the bottom that would not flow fluid, even though it was open and not blocked!
You can mount it higher to use a straight fitting, or (to keep it lower and cleaner looking) change it to a little aluminum res (off-shore) with a straight fitting out of the side, not the bottom. You want it to flow downhill, even though it will siphon, an air bubble in the res line would stop it flowing if it's going uphill.
Looks are important, brakes are importanter
I noticed a couple things in the pictures you'll want to check. The brake line still looks much too short. Unload the front suspension and still should have quite a bit of a bend in it. If it's 'almost long enough' and trying to be almost straight with the suspension extended, the obviously aftermarket line will have problems... soon
Personally I unload the front, and make sure the center of the banjo is at least 75mm longer than the inlet hole of the caliper at a minimum. That way the line isn't flexing a lot with suspension movement.
Also, I have used that exact off-shore brake fluid reservoir on a couple projects.Sure, it's cheap and looks nice, BUT twice now I have had weird brake issues that were solved by changing it. It would bleed OK but wouldn't pull fluid into the master during normal use/brake pad wear and the lever would go soft. Twice, it was the little plastic 90* fitting on the bottom that would not flow fluid, even though it was open and not blocked!
You can mount it higher to use a straight fitting, or (to keep it lower and cleaner looking) change it to a little aluminum res (off-shore) with a straight fitting out of the side, not the bottom. You want it to flow downhill, even though it will siphon, an air bubble in the res line would stop it flowing if it's going uphill.
Looks are important, brakes are importanter
Thanks! I will change the brake line. Why do you need so much overlength? I agree it is to short now, but I thought just to add 1 or 1,5 inch.
More is better in this case?
With unloaded suspension, the brake line is 1 centimeter longer than the inlet on the caliper at this moment. It is aftermarket, but made to my specifications.
I will look into another reservoir in the winter. Had no problem yet, but I don't want to run into problems either.
I'll keep that last sentence in mind when working on brakes from now on.
More is better in this case?
With unloaded suspension, the brake line is 1 centimeter longer than the inlet on the caliper at this moment. It is aftermarket, but made to my specifications.
I will look into another reservoir in the winter. Had no problem yet, but I don't want to run into problems either.
I'll keep that last sentence in mind when working on brakes from now on.
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Cooter
Well-known member
It needs to be "overlength" so that it moves as little as possible during suspension movement. 75mm is a guess, 1.5" is probably ok too. You're trying to mimic the OE line length and routing, and IMO, the pic of yours looks way too short. You'll see the big bend they have at static ride height, and the support bracket placement to keep it off the tire.
Fun fact: Monroe shocks used to quote that for every mile a vehicle travels, the suspension will cycle approximately one MILLION times:eek-new: X 50k+ miles, an extra inch or two of flex matters.
Also check this out:
It was very hard for Spiegler to match OE specs and pass that DOT test. Think about that while shopping for cheap brake lines on e-bay.
https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/why-spiegler-brake-lines/testing-and-research.html
You may or may not have a reservoir issue in the future, I just recognized the one you bought and thought I'd mention it.
Fun fact: Monroe shocks used to quote that for every mile a vehicle travels, the suspension will cycle approximately one MILLION times:eek-new: X 50k+ miles, an extra inch or two of flex matters.
Also check this out:
It was very hard for Spiegler to match OE specs and pass that DOT test. Think about that while shopping for cheap brake lines on e-bay.
https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/why-spiegler-brake-lines/testing-and-research.html
You may or may not have a reservoir issue in the future, I just recognized the one you bought and thought I'd mention it.
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I understand!
A new, longer brake line is already ordered. I have bought good quality brake lines from Hell Performance. I don't know if you know them.
I have checked the reservoir also, it is tilted, so the hose between pump and reservoir is on an small angle, so I think I won't run into problems with this. However, if I do run into problems, this will be the first suspects. Thanks for the help!
A new, longer brake line is already ordered. I have bought good quality brake lines from Hell Performance. I don't know if you know them.
I have checked the reservoir also, it is tilted, so the hose between pump and reservoir is on an small angle, so I think I won't run into problems with this. However, if I do run into problems, this will be the first suspects. Thanks for the help!
34nineteen
Well-known member
You mean Helper Formance right?
https://www.helperformance.com/
I have bought brake lines from them too.
