Fixing Earthing Problems - Why and How

[John Vreede]

Yeah the different model sure are different.
A Uly has the battery turned 90deg and the rubber strap goes in the same direction as your hose clamp. The connections are on top and vibration doesn't loosen them.
Also the computer ground lug on a Uly has 2 wires crimped into the same lug, one fat wire and the other thinner, whereas all yours appear to be single wire per lug
The battery tray is actually just getting in the way of the grounding (Edit: Not so. The passive zinc or cadmium plating eases the corrosion potential - but it needs to be clean!) as they're all trying to make electrical contact into the aluminum. People need to clean&protect the joint in between the battery tray and the Al sub-frame
At 0.2 Ohm your lug connection is OK
BTW all your connections look to be dry, If you don't coat them with some protectant, then they'll degrade again.
Thx for the pics, its clear now.
Will put some measurements and pics in the checklist. - jv

 

[mmcn49]

Today I ran a 16 AWG jumper from one of the coil's mounting bolts to the Tie Bar. I had already installed a 4 AWG cable from the Tie Bar to battery's negative terminal. Years ago I had run a 16 AWG jumper between both subframe wire junction points. Today I pulled the bolts, ran a tap down the holes, squirted in CRC 2-26, coated the bolts with neverseize and reassembled. Also coated the ecm pins and connectors with 2-26.

This is a PITA task but your credibility is high based on last weeks performance. Didn't go for a run today but the bike started instantly. Faster than usual.

 

[mmcn49]

If all else fails we can go with a good old Earth Ground! :eagerness:

 

[John Vreede]

NASA and the military have produced documents and MIL-STD's about Galvanic corrosion of metals in electrical contact (which is what earth joint corrosion is).
In an offline discussion, Gabby_duck from BadWeB showed me a NASA paper on electrical bonding (many thanks Alan!).
It has a table showing which metals can be in contact with which, and what to do when they are. (see attached)
The bullet points under the table are good background info - jv

 

[mmcn49]

Since completing the electrical bonding as outlined by John, I've taken the Buell's on several long runs, (300-500 miles). In addition to a noticeably smoother running engine and better throttle response, mileage has also increased.

I'm consistently getting 51+ MPG. Prior to bonding I never hit 50. MPG varied but was usually around 47-49 MPG.

 

[Bergmanov]

New to Forum. Looking at buying an XB12SS today but a bit scared of the electrical issues... this helped Thanks

 

[Outlaw]

Buells have electrical issues?

 

[Cooter]

Just ebb and flow Outlaw, no need to go looking for problems you don't have. You've been around long enough. Do you remember The Great Oil Debate? The Tuning War? :black_eyed: Its just the latest Buellizm hyper-focus but not wholly Buell specific. The info here is good, and can be applied to any DC circuit (including the ones NASA builds ), but 'in my experience' Buells aren't any worse off than any other V-twin motorcycle for ground path circuitry. IMO even the 220cca OE recommended battery is still marginal at best.

Better ground paths aren't going to hurt anything, so have fun in the garage. I'm going to go riding

 

[Outlaw]

Yep

 

[user_deleted]

Buells have electrical issues?

i don't know about any of that tough guy but i know that if you install WidowMaker "One-Percenter" model drag pipes on an XB it won't run worth a damn and nobody on here will help you and nobody will send you a tune program and nobody will help you fix your burned exhaust valves and nobody on here helps and you and everybody else on here sucks!!!


Love always,
FabioDriven
Quincy, MA

 

[Outlaw]

Ha, good times right there.

 

[34nineteen]

Just ebb and flow Outlaw, no need to go looking for problems you don't have. You've been around long enough. Do you remember The Great Oil Debate? The Tuning War? :black_eyed: Its just the latest Buellizm hyper-focus but not wholly Buell specific. The info here is good, and can be applied to any DC circuit (including the ones NASA builds ), but 'in my experience' Buells aren't any worse off than any other V-twin motorcycle for ground path circuitry. IMO even the 220cca OE recommended battery is still marginal at best.

Better ground paths aren't going to hurt anything, so have fun in the garage. I'm going to go riding

Werd!

:up:^^^^

 

[Outlaw]

Agreed ^^^^

 

[Outlaw]

Sorry misread. Thought you said weird.

 

[Cooter]

Weird to yo momma.

 

[Outlaw]

Must be the west coast lingo.

 

[mmcn49]

John presented information I was not aware of. Prior to bonding my bikes ran fine. There was a slight, (but noticeable) improvement in both after completing the work. Always looking for rainy day projects as I no longer suffer from the "Work-A-Day" blues routine. This project fit the bill.

If so inclined, this might be a good winter project, especially if you have odd little issues you can't quite put your finger on.

 

[John Vreede]

Hope this adds to the info on maintaining earth connections.
Everybody seems to have their own pet way of 'protecting' electrical joints. The various responses to this post were:
• Silicone protective contact spray
• Dielectric grease
• Roller chain spray
• Pure Nickel Never Seez
• CRC2:26
My father used to coat battery terminals with Vaseline (petroleum jelly) and he was an electrician.
All this got me thinking and searching. The facts are:
• Electricity is only conducted through metals or carbon (as graphite or CF)
• Joints require metal to metal contact
• The more metal in contact the lower the resistance
• Anything non-conductive in the joint will increase resistance
• Grease and silicone and most oxides are non-conductive
• All the above (apart from CRC2:26) are grease or silicone based
Therefore, all those above, apart from CRC2:26, must make joints LESS conductive.
I think the reason people swear by them, is that when you tighten the joint, almost all of it squishes out the sides and leaves a coating of waterproof grease on the outside of the joint, preventing water getting in and corroding it. Enough metal to metal contact is made between the high points of the surfaces to get acceptable conductivity.
BUT there will be less conductivity than if the grease wasn’t there!
The Air Force specify using sprays like CRC2:26 that ‘enhance electrical properties’ (if you can believe CRC’s advertising).
Now the only way to ‘enhance electrical properties’ is to create more metal to metal contact in a joint, i.e reduce metal oxides back to metal, remove tarnish. So I part-dipped a tarnished copper penny (up to the birds tail) in CRC2:26 and waited. After 4 days, its not bright and new, but has removed some tarnish:

It seems that CRC2:26 really does have the ability to improve electrical joints like they say. It’s a solvent, so cleans off surface grease. If you tighten the joint wet, it can reduce oxides and promote metal to metal contact. Then it evaporates leaving the best possible joint. Maybe it really did revive that suspect crimp in my loom, though I’m still skeptical.
BUT the joint needs to be protected from later water ingress. That’s why the Air Force also specify a waxy protectant compound over the outside of the joint, like CRC CPC400, which will stand >500hrs ASTM salt spray testing but CRC says it still needs to be reapplied every 2-3yrs (though you don’t have to take the joint apart).
I guess what it means is that no method is ‘for the life of the bike’. If you clean the grounds you have to maintain the protection or do it again every so often – jv

 

[njloco]

I can tell you all this, I started using roller chain spray on battery terminals years ago to stop the white and or blueish build up on the terminals which, happens for different reasons. Since starting to use the chain spray, I've never had a build up and have never had a connection problem, I only reapply when the connection is taken apart for other maintenance reasons, I use Malco roller chain spray only because I had it on hand.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the above post also sounds like a really good idea.

 

[JimRideThis!]

Thanks for your extensive write up John, I appreciate the time and effort involved. This is the next job on my Ulysses XT and your initial write-up and the PDF summary have saved me a lot of time. While getting a knowledgable steer on the ‘how’ I also appreciate knowing the ‘why’ too.

Thanks again! :eagerness: