The reason Cobb said it was ok to use narrowband, was because he already had base tunes. Once you tune with wideband to get the base tune, you can rely on narrowband for driveability tuning.
I think you are mistaking what I am saying regarding narrow band O2 values, I am talking about only closed loop not the whole map. Making a shift from 14.7 to a slightly richer value, up to 14.2 reliably according to Mike.
I'm not saying it is possible one way or the another while still running a NB O2 and still enabling AFV to make adjustments, you "could" get theses values if you disable AFV/O2 correction, manipulate WB value output to ECM (in your case) to simulate NB values or run a barometric pressure sensor for correction.
Xoptimizedrsx
"Also Guys Dont Forget The Target Afv In The O2 Calaculations. As This Will Make Less Fuel Milage But Gain Power And Make The Engine Runn A Little Coller. But Once You Lower That Value You Will Have To Rescale The Fuel Table To Handle The New Code As The Afv Will Change. But A Nb Can Only Move So Much So Dont Get Carried Away And Try To Make It In The Afr Below 14.2 Or It Will Do Wild Things You Wont Like."
I wanted to find the quote where he goes into adjusting these values to get the desired AFR but can't find it in the thread at this time.
Let's say stock target AFR's are 14.7-1 closed/ 13.5-1 open/ 13.0-1 WOT, We've just shifted the closed loop to 14.2-1 now we change the value labeled open loop enrich from the stock value of 5% to 6% shifting the 13.5-1 value closer to 13.2-1, last we adjust WOT enrich from stock value of 10% to 11% changing the 13.0-1 closer to 12.7-1.
No need to reinvent the wheel you can bet the maps were tuned with a wide band from the factory so all the data needed is already in place, then as you stated Mike has done the factory installed narrow band O2's to work off the data and sen't the bikes out the door. Both xoptimized and gemini came to this conclusion from tuning the bikes.
EDIT: It appears Gunther feels this was done from the factory as well as the above 2 knowledgeable fellows.
"From Fuell Fall 2007: "The left side air scoop was shaped to direct air to the rear cylinder and is very effective at doing that. During our high-speed, hotambient
testing, the front and rear spark-plug base temperatures are virtually identical, whereas on the old tube-twin bikes there was
a 100 Degree Fahrenheit difference (rear running hotter)."
Regarding XB models, the rear cylinder isn't running hotter than the front one, according to the manufacturerer, and therefore doesn't need any additional cooling. On the other hand, the front one isn't running any cooler and doesn't need any enrichment because of that.
Very probably the front cylinder had once been mapped using a O2 sensor, so the map will just reflect it's needs.
Regards,
Gunter "
-Nice bit of info that the front/rear cylinders run at the same temps as well!
I'm not saying it's a perfect system and if a cell is lean in the map it is always going to be leaner than target AFR because AFV is a blanket over the whole map so if it applies a value of 105% we see 5% added across every cell + 5% (total 10% in these cells) on top of that across open loop cells and finally + 5% more on WOT cells (10% enrich + 5% AFV enrich).
I have tried just using narrowband for tuning in the past and just kept going around in circles with the tune.
When you were data logging did you disable AFV/EGO correction? Using an analyzer to adjust the fuel tables based on algorithms it is imperative only the fuel table values against unadjusted 02 values are plugged in for changes. Once you get the maps values close that is as far as you can go with this method as you will see the analyzer add or subtract needed fuel in a given cell from data log to data log.
Cole, knows most if not all of this ^^^^^^^ but for those following along learning...
http://www.buelletinboard.com/forums/showthread.php?5176-ecmspy-2-q-a/page1
Here is one of the may tuning discussions from the past, this one is over 150 pages of knowledge!
