I NEED HELP Charging Issue

[FlaXB9R]

Ok so where to start?

I went for a ride last weekend and got stranded due to bike dying. Rode for close to 8 hours without an issue. First thing was down shifting going into a corner when releasing the clutch it didn't feel right. Then I noticed my dash was completely out no speedo, tack, or anything. So I stood up and looked over the bike and also had no lights. Came up on a stop sign and struggled to keep it running seemed to want to die if I wasn't on the throttle. Decided to try to get to a store but didn't even make it a mile to the next over pass and bike died. Fuel pump would prime or anything although the headlight did try to flicker. Checked all fuses and battery connections and all good.

So I was a hour away from home and had to call a ride to pick me up. Got the bike home and hooked it to the trickle charger took close to a day before the charger turned green (Charged). I started bike and hooked to ecmspy and the battery volts didn't move at all while revving and actually started to drop after a few minutes. I pulled of the pulley cover and checked the connections. All seemed good besides this one connection wasn't pushed all the way in (I have no idea if it even has anything to do with the charging system)

Started the bike again with ecmspy hooked up and it was now charging. I watched for a few minutes revving the bike and all of a sudden it quit charging. So I gave up from there.

Just today I tracked down a multimeter. (Father in-laws) Appears to be a high dollar one too which is making it more confusing because there are only symbols on each setting and not the actual setting [confused] I was planning on asking my father in-law to help me with that part but did decide to play with it myself today. Started bike today with ecmspy and it was charging and stayed charging the whole time I was messing with it. I seem to have figured a few things out but when I went to do the AC test per the manual I ran into a problem. It said to disconnect the stator wiring and test the stator AC output @ 3000 rpm's but with the wire disconnected the bike won't start or run when disconnected. I tried to stick the post down into the top of the plug but I wasn't getting a steady reading and I'm not sure if it was the stator or the connection to the multimeter. Here is a screen shot of the manual directions I've been using.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am completely clueless when it comes to electronics. Thanks in advance.

 

[Rays]

Are you really sure you disconnected the Stator connector? If the battery has enough charge to crank and run it should definitely run with the stator disconnected. There are several connectors in that area - the CPS plg would prent the engine starting if disconnected.
The stator connector (46) is the largest connector in that area - it is a 4-pin Deutsche type plug/socket with only wires in 3 of the 4 positions.

This photo is of the VR side - you need to measure in the female side of this which is the loom coming from the stator.

This is a picture of one of my Multimeters and these symbols are going to be similar to what you are presented with I imagine.

The first one clockwise from the OFF position is the AC Volts range (the squiggle represents a sine wave) and this is what you need to select to measure the AC output of the stator.

The second position is the DC volts range - this is what you would measure the voltage across the battery terminals with.

The fourth position is the Ohms range (the symbol looks like an upside-down horseshoe - the symbol Omega). This is the range you need to select to do the resistance tests on the stator described in the service manual.

The AC output test is done with the engine running and the resistance test is done with engine off.

Now, having said all that, intermittent charging sounds more like the Voltage Regulator 77 Connector or the regulator itself. The stator is usually good or bad and less likely to be intermittent I would think.

A really burnt 77 connector isn't usually intermittent either but a slightly loose 77 female socket can lead to arcing with the male pin and be very intermittent. Just the act of disconnecting the 77 connector and re-plugging will wipe the contacts and the system will charge again.

Go to the link to a Google docs article that I put together ages ago. Hopefully this is working again - it was stuffed-up by a change to Google docs recently, let me know if it isn't. This will step you through checking these sockets and re-forming them if required.
77 Connector Check

PM me if you need to.

 

[user_deleted]

as usual rays nailed it and nailed it well. great info provided there. flaxb9r you circled the neutral switch plug. any reason? start with a known fully charged battery, you'll want 12.2-12.4 volts DC at rest, bike off. then start bike and do your checks. ballpark is 13.8-14.8 volts DC at 3000rpm but your manual covers all that. check stator as per rays instructions. stator produces AC current just like your house-current.

 

[CO Buell]

I too was just stranded by the exact same electrical problem! I tracked it down to a bad voltage regulator.
I would start there as the description of your event matched mine exactly.

Best price on a new V/R was from: http://surdyke.com/AdvPartInfo.asp?PartNumber=Y0302.5A8

Hope this helps.....

 

[FlaXB9R]

@ Rays First of thanks for all the info. The connector I was disconnecting looks to be the same that you have pictured. This one? [confused]

Now for the multimeter that helped a lot. I had some of that figured out yesterday. The one big stump I came across yesterday (besides bike not running while disconnecting the connector) was while checking ohm's how to get it on the RX1 scale. This is the multimeter I have borrowed. Maybe you could point me in the right direction with that too.

@ lunatic

flaxb9r you circled the neutral switch plug. any reason?

All seemed good besides this one connection wasn't pushed all the way in (I have no idea if it even has anything to do with the charging system)

So thanks now I know what it is.[up] Didn't even look cause the manual said nothing about in the troubleshooting section.

@ CO thanks for the info and link too[up]



My son has a baseball tournament all weekend and wife works tonight so I have all the kids so looks like I won't even be able to do anymore troubleshooting till tomorrow afternoon at the earliest. Thanks for all the input so far and would appreciate any other feedback anyone may have. Also if that is the stator connector anyone have any idea why the bike won't start while disconnected and also dies if you pull while running. Battery has a full charge.

Thanks

 

[FlaXB9R]

Ray just sent you a request for access to the google doc

Thanks

 

[Rays]

OK,your first problem is the connector you are disconnecting. The one circled is the Cam Position sensor. That will definitely stop the engine starting.
The Stator connector has three large black wires (at least twice as thick as the wires visible for the CPS connector).
That connector has three multi-coloured wires (Black with white tracer, Green with white tracer and Red with white tracer). On the circuit diagram they are labelled R/W, GN/W & BK/W.
The pictures in section 7.25 of the Firebolt manual that is linked to on this site might help identify the connector - but look for wires slightly bigger than the Multimeter leads - they will be on a separate loom coming across from the back of the primary.

As to the Multimeter - I haven't used that particular model but I would think that pressing the 'Range' button with the Ohms function selected would cycle through the various options manually as it does on the FLUKE I have?
I also imagine that it would autorange for basic operation so you probably just need to switch to the applicable function on the main switch and go.

If you did play with the manual Range selection -
For lower resistance readings where you can see single digit values the selection would be the Omega symbol by itself ( for values less 1000 ohms).
For higher readings there are the K Ohms (Ohms value x 1000) and the M Ohms ranges (Ohms x 1,000,000).

If you can't access that document on the link then please PM me an email address and I'll send you a copy.

 

[Rays]

The original document was posted and shared by someone else on my behalf some years ago and it looks like Google has changed things recently so I have uploaded another copy and shared it again so it should have read access now.

This link should get you access- Updated Buell XB 77 Connector Check.

 

[FlaXB9R]

I got access from the requested access. Thanks a lot. I can't express how thankful I am for all the help you've gave me already. I'm completely ignorant when it comes to electrical issues and you are staring me in the right direction.


10x [up]

 

[FlaXB9R]

Ok so I finally pinpointed the exact problem. It was still charging up till a few days ago(needless to say I haven't rode at all really maybe a few times @ 10-15 minutes each). So a couple days ago I went around the block just to get it out and it wasn't charging. Yesterday I checked it out and the stator is working fine but no juice going threw the V/R. So now that I know it's the voltage regulator I'm going to order one. I know people suggested that was what it was but without knowing for sure I couldn't bring myself to buy a part it may not have been.

 

[nikfleisch]

Had this exact problem, New VR from Surdyke (best price), and I was back up in a few days!