Lithium battery behaviour

[Niklos]

Hello everyone.

I have a lithium battery in a 2003 VRod. That VRod is not running really often ; actually, I use it a couple weeks every years while my Buell is at the dealer for yearly servicing.
So anyways, during the year, the Skyrich lithium battery is always plugged to a Skyrich charger.
This year, the motorcycle had big issue starting. I thought it was the battery but HD told me it was 2 faulty relays. They changed those relays last satursday and everything seams fine since this weekend. Everything but one thing : the battery voltage seams wierd to me.
Actually, after I ride the bike, the battery is at 14V but it goes back to 13.1V/13.2V within 10 hours. Is it normal for it to go back to 13.1V this quick ? It stays at 13.1V during couple a days no problem but still. It seems wierd to me that it falls this fast.
Do you know if the is a normal behaviour ? Thanks !

 

[Niklos]

Thanks for your answer.

NOTE: a substantial percentage of 1st generation VRSC models suffered faulty starter solenoids, over time. the clue to one going awry was inordinately high amount of relay destruction.

We'll see if it happens again. Right now it is more likely to be because of the storage near the sea...

perfectly normal.
as per East Penn Mfg....a world-class battery manufacturer:
a "healthy" Li-ion self-discharges at a rate of approx. 5% in the first 24 hours. then at a consecutive rate of approx. 1% per
month."
do the math. you are well within specs.

Well... 14V to 13.1V within 10 hours seams to be more like 50% than 5% and it is in a lot less than 24 hours.

 

[Niklos]

Well, the point is, I want to know if the behaviour is normal or not. That is it.
What is the "obvious" solution according to you ? Because I don't see any.

 

[RidetheLightning]

Well, the point is, I want to know if the behaviour is normal or not. That is it.
What is the "obvious" solution according to you ? Because I don't see any.

Replacing with a lead-acid battery. I heeded his advice back when the li-ion that came with my bike was starting to go (not saying yours is), and went with a Deka AGM, and it's been great.

 

[34nineteen]

Thanks for your answer.


We'll see if it happens again. Right now it is more likely to be because of the storage near the sea...

I dont remember seeing anything in the instructions of my lithium battery cautioning about storing the battery near the sea? Does this apply to lakes and streams? Does the salinity of the water have anything to do with it?


Lead acid batteries dont seem to have this issue and are used in marine applications as OE equipment from various boat manufacturers for both salt and fresh water applications.


There used to be an old tale about not storing batteries on concrete as it supposedly made them drain faster or something. This sounds like a Cooter-ism.

 

[Cooter]

Niklos. You have been given accurate information from smart people trying to help you. Why argue with them when YOU are the one who asked!?

Except this:

There used to be an old tale about not storing batteries on concrete as it supposedly made them drain faster or something. This sounds like a Cooter-ism.

Old, greasy, lead-acid battery cases... maybe. But how did you know I have a tail?:calm:

I would pay particular attention to this valuable gem provided to you by the esteemed Barrett and actually DO something about it before it leaves you stranded by the sea.

NOTE: a substantial percentage of 1st generation VRSC models suffered faulty starter solenoids, over time. the clue to one going awry was inordinately high amount of relay destruction.

Because waiting for failure will get you exactly what you are waiting for:

We'll see if it happens again.

$28

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/38...IyB0IpWTojxrNxEKZN-kcthwDglpyf-xoCqnwQAvD_BwE

 

[Niklos]

Replacing with a lead-acid battery. I heeded his advice back when the li-ion that came with my bike was starting to go (not saying yours is), and went with a Deka AGM, and it's been great.

Well, the 3 or 4 last time I went with a lead acid battery on this bike (guenuine HD, as far as I know, it is the same as the DEKA one), I had to replace it every single year (and it was all the time on a permanent charger). Probably because it is not being used enough. So no, I won't put a lead acid battery on that bike again as they last at least 5 time less as the lithium battery does dispite costing almost twice as much.

I dont remember seeing anything in the instructions of my lithium battery cautioning about storing the battery near the sea? Does this apply to lakes and streams? Does the salinity of the water have anything to do with it?


Lead acid batteries dont seem to have this issue and are used in marine applications as OE equipment from various boat manufacturers for both salt and fresh water applications.

Hmm, I think I did not explain that quite well. The salt and "sea air" has probably been degrading the bike relays. Not the battery.

Niklos. You have been given accurate information from smart people trying to help you. Why argue with them when YOU are the one who asked!?

Well, the only question I ask is whether or not the battery behaviour was fine. And people are telling me things that does not make sence to me. So I "argue" to try to understand whatever people say. That's it. I am not saying that they are wrong. But I am saying that it does not make sence to me because of whatever. And I want to understand.

exemple : self-discharges at a rate of approx. 5% in the first 24 hours. then at a consecutive rate of approx. 1% per
month."
do the math. you are well within specs.
To me, going from 14V to 13.1V in the first 10 hours is NOT "approx. 5% in the first 24 hours." it is more like approx 60% (according to Skyrich chart).

So yes, I argue because I don't understand the answer. And, again, I really wish to understand. I am probably wrong on what I am saying above, but still, if that's the case, I want to understand "why" I am wrong.

 

[Niklos]

Because waiting for failure will get you exactly what you are waiting for:


$28

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/38...IyB0IpWTojxrNxEKZN-kcthwDglpyf-xoCqnwQAvD_BwE

Thanks ! I am going to check if I can find such a thing for a VRod and where I live

 

[Barrett]

Well, the 3 or 4 last time I went with a lead acid battery on this bike (guenuine HD, as far as I know, it is the same as the DEKA one), I had to replace it every single year (and it was all the time on a permanent charger). Probably because it is not being used enough. So no, I won't put a lead acid battery on that bike again as they last at least 5 time less as the lithium battery does dispite costing almost twice as much.



Comical.....bordering on the absurd. your tediousness and argumentative, confrontational history on here dictates nothing less should be expected.
if this nonsense is even remotely accurate and truthful, then the "problem'" is clearly the result of your incompetence, on several fronts.

All H-D branded batteries factory installed and sold thru franchised dealers are DEKA. all have minimum 2 year pro-rated warranty. you failed to inquire.

you are experiencing either a serious charging system problem or substantial parasitic draw at rest....or both. you failed to check.

you seem like the type that would irresolutely connect either a small charger or tender to your AGM battery for indefinite periods of time. that is the death-knell for any AGM or "wet" lead-acid battery.

 

[Niklos]

if this nonsense is even remotely accurate and truthful, then the "problem'" is clearly the result of your incompetence, on several fronts.

First of all, yes, that is the truth, second, yes, I am incompetent. I work with computers, not bikes. That's why I am asking people stuff .

All H-D branded batteries factory installed and sold thru franchised dealers are DEKA. all have minimum 2 year pro-rated warranty. you failed to inquire.

On that one, YOU are partially wrong. The battery has a 2 year warranty that I DID NOT failed to inquire. Despite that, they all died within a year (I mean, the previous lead acid batteries one).

you are experiencing either a serious charging system problem or substantial parasitic draw at rest....or both. you failed to check.

Again, as you said, I am incompetent. Also, I hope my local HD dealer is not because, if you are right, he failed to check it a couple days ago.

you seem like the type that would irresolutely connect either a small charger or tender to your AGM battery for indefinite periods of time. that is the death-knell for any AGM or "wet" lead-acid battery.

Well, that is interesting because I am definitly using a charger that is always connecting on the battery while the bike is not used. It might not be the good way to do but that is what is written on the user manual. And again, dispite that the previous lead acid batteries all died while the lithium battery did not.

Anyways, I don't want to argue on that lead acid battery vs lithium batteries. There is not point. All what I want to know is if my battery is having the behaviour it is suppose to have. That is it.

 

[34nineteen]

Have you contacted the battery manufacturer with your concerns? What has been their response?

 

[Cooter]

Even though your battery is fine, and everyone you ask tells you is it fine, you can still check for a draw.

Disconnect the battery negative and place an ammeter between the leads. >500mA is typically acceptable, check your service manual to be sure.

 

[34nineteen]

I think you mean <500mA.

 

[Niklos]

Have you contacted the battery manufacturer with your concerns? What has been their response?

View attachment 14662

I did n°1 a couple days ago. No answer so far. But COVID makes stuff very difficult here. Many shop and enterprises are closed. As soon as I get an answer I will tell you.

Even though your battery is fine, and everyone you ask tells you is it fine, you can still check for a draw.

I know, but I don't understand WHY. And now that is what I want to know.

Disconnect the battery negative and place an ammeter between the leads. <500mA is typically acceptable, check your service manual to be sure.

OK, I will do that !

 

[34nineteen]

Are you saying you dont understand why the bike puts a draw on the battery when the ignition is turned off?

or

Are you saying you dont understand why the battery would have a draw on it when it is disconnected from the bike?

 

[Niklos]

None of those.

What I don't understand is why the battery goes from 14V to 13V within 10 hours which means -60/70% charge. That seams a bit to high too me. But I might be wrong. Especialy as then, it is staying at 13V during hours, maybe even days without going lower.
And, people here told me it is OK. I don't understand why it is OK to loose 1V in a couple hours. I am not saying that it actually is NOT OK. But I would like to understand why it is loosing this much power in such little time and then stays at about 13V.

edit : actually, it seams like it is what you said. I "dont understand why the battery would have a draw on it when it is disconnected from the bike?"

 

[34nineteen]

What I don't understand is why the battery goes from 14V to 13V within 10 hours

When it is connected to the bike or not connected to the bike?

 

[njloco]

All due respect, it doesn't matter where the bike was sold or where your from, if Barret says it's the possible problem that's basically from HD.

I installed a lithium battery in one of my bikes and so far I love it, I've charged it twice since I got it over a year ago. From what I understand, one should not charge it to 100% and not discharge it to 0. When the battery goes bad in the Triumph I will replace it with a lithium battery.

 

[Cooter]

Theres no need to worry about how much surface voltage you are losing, or even how accurate the voltmeter is.

'If you have > 12.5-12.7 volts at rest, its all good, forget the rest.'

 

[Niklos]

All right ! Problem solved then.

Thanks every one.