My Buell finally let me down...Input appreciated.

[50dro]

I started the day off at 9AM looking to put a few hundred miles on my bike and take advantage of the pre-Autumn weather we are currently having in Western PA but it didn't turn out that way...

The last few times I started the bike, it hesitated then ultimately fired up. This morning it did the same so I went about my way thinking that the original 2004 battery was on its last leg. I got about a mile down the road to the gas station where I was meeting ups with my friends, topped off the tank then it simply would not start.

Symptoms:
-Neutral light will not work
-Starter relays click only when clutch is pulled in (even in neutral)
-Bump-starting works (in 5th gear)

So I hunted down a battery up the street and drove the bike there after the bump-start. Old battery was a little weak so I just replaced it figuring the OEM battery had enough. NO CHANGE!!!!

I spoke with a Buell tech at New Castle HD/Buell who walked me through some troubleshooting to test the relays and the starter. Here's what I found:

-The relays send power to the green wire at the starter so they seem OK.
-When testing the green wire (starter signal wire) as it's plugged into the starter, I have constant 12V even when the starter button isn't pushed.
-Testing the wire unplugged from the starter it's only powered when the button is pushed.
-Unplugged the green wire and jumped it to the battery...nothing
-Volt meter to the lead that the green wire plugs into shows 12V (it shouldn't until the button is pressed)

To me, it sounds like there's something messed up inside the starter back-feeding to the signal lead. A new complete starter is pushing $400!

So I figured, F it! I wanted to ride so I bumped the bike again and went down the road. The bike started falling on it's nose between 3-4K RPM. I decided I better not push my luck so I pulled over to turn around. The bike started sputtering and smoking from the intake so I shut her down. Just then a guy pulls up with an empty trailer and was nice enough to get me home. [up] to him! I'm guessing my plugs got fouled from the injectors spraying so many times and all the bump starts etc...I hope that's all it is!

So the bike sits in the garage with the same sad look on its face that I have. That starter is a pain to remove. Looks liek you have to pull the whole primary cover to get to it

End of story...Any words of wisdom much appreciated.

PS - Sorry for the long post...

 

[P3_techman]

It seems to me like there is something grounded out on the starter end of that signal wire. I'd check all connections and have the starter tested. Your symptoms after the kickstarting the bike your last time make me think that the starter may have been engaged and (while riding) you caught up to it's RPM limit. Don't take this for law by any means, but it is the impression I get from the information you provided.

Hope it helps.

 

[50dro]

Thanks. We did check that wire for continuity and it was OK. I wonder if there are any other tests I can do with the started still installed? I hate to pull the primary cover if I don't have to...

 

[08herobolt]

Agreed. Have someone put a load on the starter. Also, check the amps to the starter. That's what it really need. While you're there, have them do a test on the battery. Question, did you put the acid in the battery or was it sealed? The reason I ask is because the battery should be charged after adding acid.

My suggestions aren't law either. Just a few thoughts before I you go the electrical gremlin route.

 

[Theycallmecrash]

Charging system issues. Have you checked for that?

 

[50dro]

Thank you! I have a lead (no pun) on a used starter from a part out so that's a good back up plan I suppose.

The battery came from a local reputable battery shop who has it charged and ready to go for me so I think all is good there.

I forgot to mention that we tried jump starting it and it didn't react so that furthermore leads me to the starter or the wiring...

Thanks again!

 

[anrkizm95]

pull the starter off,take the solenoid apart and clean the internal contacts they get dirty.iv had to do this three times so far.i do quite a bit of riding in the rain so im guessing water is getting in through the vent on the starter.

 

[Zeroflat24]

Boo on your luck 50 [down] If you need a hand tearing anything apart let me know.

 

[50dro]

pull the starter off,take the solenoid apart and clean the internal contacts they get dirty.iv had to do this three times so far.i do quite a bit of riding in the rain so im guessing water is getting in through the vent on the starter.

Thanks. I may try that although I'm going to get the used starter just because...It's cheap enough and spares are always nice to have around. That being said, my bike almost never sees water so it's doubtful that was the cause. Now that I think of it...It was rained on sitting at my work parking lot a few weeks ago but still doubtful.

Boo on your luck 50 If you need a hand tearing anything apart let me know.

Thanks! Right now, I may just need a hand feeding me beers!

 

[stensg]

Have toy tried directly connecting a battery to the starter? Or tapping the starter while trying to turn it over.

 

[50dro]

Yes...both the hammer trick usually works...or at least makes you feel better anyhow! Lol

 

[P3_techman]

pull the starter off,take the solenoid apart and clean the internal contacts they get dirty

Agreed.
It'll be fun, right?

 

[neilrl79]

That starter is a pain to remove. Looks liek you have to pull the whole primary cover to get to it

Yup, had mine off to replace the gasket this past winter.

 

[stensg]

Well if the hammer trick didn't work get out that electrical cleaner.

 

[50dro]

Does anyone have a part number list for the gaskets I'll need?

 

[mowgoli84]

=(

 

[50dro]

I FIXED IT!!!

Have a look at this pic and tell me if you can tell what failed... (hint...not the starter)

Props to lotusexcelle for having the right fix in mind! [up]

 

[thewanmanrules]

Ground Strap? cracked / separated?

 

[GAXB9R]

Rag in the intake glad you got her fixed. Bad ground will do it.

 

[50dro]

Ground , yes, but I think the strap is OK. I haven't actually performed the fix yet but I think what happened is that when I had the seat rails powder coated, I lost the ground connection from the battery to the rails to the frame then to the motor somewhere. Jumping to that ground strap bypassed all that and the bike fired right up!

I'm a happy man right now...No need to tear into the primary! [up]