need help to get running....

[tonyvp85]

So i have an 07 xb9r that is not wanting to start. Has not been started in 6 months. No trouble codes present via bridging port 1 & 2 locally and reading check engine light flashing for ddfi codes. Ecmspy is not showing codes either. Replaced spark plugs, new fuel with fuel system cleaner, oil change done, and IAT sensor replaced... not sure where to go now... any help would be appreciated

 

[mrlogix]

start with the basics. Is it actually getting fuel to the cylinders? Does it have spark?

 

[tonyvp85]

Tested sparks on ecmspy and heard them firing, and fuel is going to cylinders, can smell it when trying to turn over

 

[Chicknstripn]

How many volts are you showing for your battery?
Are all the grounds and power leads connected properly and free of corrosion?
What does the engine do when you try to turn it over? Does the starter simply click? Does the engine turn but no fire?
When you are connected to ECMspy do you see the bar graph for the throttle position sensor move when you blip the throttle?
I threw that last one in there cause that happened to me once. Bike sat for a while and after words wouldn't start. I scratched my head for a while until I noticed I was getting no signal from the TPS. Replaced it, reset it and bike fired right up.
BTW

 

[user_deleted]

you don't have any spark. remove the negative battery cable...let sit 5 minutes...reattach and try again. sounds idiotic but often times it works and it's simple.

 

[tonyvp85]

Chicknstripn- bike starter turns motor, no clicks, battery runs from 12.6V when charged and is sitting at 11.9V as per ecmspy right now. Going to place it on charger tonight and test tomorrow before having tires replaced. I have checked power and ground leads from battery and no corrosion and is clean. The TPS when full shut was around 7.42% open when i first connected ecmspy. Talked with local buell techs at hampton roads HD service depts and they said to reset to 0% via ecmspy and test for motor firing. Still no fire but motor turns and fuel smells present afterwords. TPS sensor on ecmspy does show various positions when throttling from 0%-100% open.

Lunaticfringe- would that be better to try then just having the battery removed for about a 24 hr period to charge battery? Its a standard battery with 220A CCA.

Oh, and what resistance and voltage should i be checking for on coil pack leads, and the spark plug wires? Trying to find the ohm and V Rating to check if maybe the wires are about shot... having new ones shipped to a local HD for pickup on friday but just looking for as much electrical info as able...

V/R
tonyvp85

 

[Chicknstripn]

I'm no electrical wizard but it sounds like your battery might be the culprit. My battery usually sits at a low of 13.3 via ECMspy.
How were you able to reset the TPS without the bike running? To get a good idle the bike has to be running.
Did you just follow the steps to zero in the service manual then set TPS to around 5.2 to try and get the bike to start?
Just wondering what your procedure was.
Anyway, I'd have the battery tested. These bikes need maximum voltage to start and run properly.

 

[user_deleted]

Lunaticfringe- would that be better to try then just having the battery removed for about a 24 hr period to charge battery? Its a standard battery with 220A CCA.

removing it will be fine. resistance on the coil side to side check is 0.5 ohms.

 

[tonyvp85]

Lunatic - i will fluke the coil pack again, dont remember what she was at off top of head, but just got her back from tire change. Have new plugs and wires from HD and going to gap and test for spark. Also have a NOS ecm if she still doesnt start after plugs and wires replaced. My # is 5202043253 if it will help getting me onto the road again

 

[user_deleted]

Lunatic - i will fluke the coil pack again,

use an accurate multi-meter. look at your factory coil where the plug affixes to it. see those 3 small pins that engage the plug? those are the signal pins. center receives constant 12 volts...the outer ones each signalled by the ecm which in turn collapses the inner windings sending the spark out each tower. just like a regular automotive coil. put your red multi-meter probe on center pin....then your black probe on either outer pin. should read 0.5 ohms or less for each test. if not coil is faulty.

 

[ztied]

hs at hampton roads HD service depts and they said to reset to 0% via ecmspy and test for motor firing.
Did you leave it at 0 or adjust it back up

 

[Cooter]

How do you "hear" spark plugs firing? Is the bike trying to start or just cranking??

I'd go even farther back to the basics.

Pull the plugs and clean them with carb cleaner and blow dry with compressed air (yes, again). LOTS of gas can saturate the electrode insulator.

While they are out, unplug the injectors and crank the motor to clear the cylinders. Then re-connect the plug to the plug wire and ground the threads. Crank it. Any actual spark at the actual spark plug electrode?

If yes, put the plugs back in and re-connect the injectors. Even if it still doesn't fire you have guaranteed that you have spark AND aren't flooded.

Next, check the fuel pressure. Low pressure will not run, but still smell like gas.

 

[tonyvp85]

I have spark and motor turning. Me and a buddy are going to pull the injectors and test them for flow, i can hear the solenoids opening and shutting via ecmspy diagnostic testing but want to make sure they are not fouled and not allowing flow.... about to just go thru and adjust timing as well

 

[Cooter]

You lose peripheral through a microscope.

You must systematically diagnose your spark, air, and fuel systems. Starting from one end and continuing to the other end. Boring? Yes, but you will ALWAYS, DEFINITELY, find the problem EVERY time.

Or you can hope to get lucky, picking parts to replace or check.

These bikes are dead nuts simple. 'Not starting' is one of the easiest things to fix, it's not even intermittent! Don't over think it.

Lose your ECMspy. I know you "know" you have spark, but it only tells you the ECM is telling the coils to fire. Testing the injectors with the plugs in? The new plugs are fouled now.
Checking the injectors flow rate in a fixture is fine, or are you 'eyeballing' them. Both going bad at the same time is much, much, more unlikely than a fairly common fuel pump clogged screen/failure/chaffed wire. If the injectors are clogged, it had to go through the fuel pump first.

Pulling the plugs and checking fuel pressure is way, way easier. Just sayin'

Good luck! We're here to help.

 

[tonyvp85]

Well i know the spark plugs are firing because i can see them sparking cooter. Right now i have to wait on the battery recharging since i am down at 11.9V. Even with running thru the trouble shooting with my buddy who is a certified motorcycle mechanic we are still trying to diagnose wtf is not making her run. Air is a given. Spark is good, and i have fuel flowing when i pulled fuel rail off to see if fuel is actually getting to the injectors. But like i said i am waiting in a charged battery to proceed. And cooter dont start crap by trying to make me out as a dumb guy. I will admit that i am not to well in depth with motorcycle know how, reason for knowing motorcycle mechanics as i do.

V/R
a nuclear mechanic

 

[Chicknstripn]

Are you sure you're getting a good TPS signal? I went through the same thing with my bike. Replaced the TPS and the bike fired right up. Also when my TPS went out the ECM didn't register any codes. No CEL. Only thing that let me know it wasn't working was the lack of signal via ECMspy.
I'm also curious how long your battery is lasting before it dies?
How old is that battery and have you had it tested to make sure you don't have a bad cell or something?
Clutch switch working?
Neutral switch?
You bank angle sensor good?
I wish I could be of more help. I know it sucks when you can't figure out why a bike isn't doing what it's suppose to.
Good luck

 

[Chicknstripn]

Reading the info that you've posted I think you need to make sure you're reseting the TPS correctly. Watch the DIY video. Reset it exactly as it shows in the vid, then try to fire it up.
You can't reset it by simply pressing the reset button on ECMspy.
Just thinking out loud. So please clearify you reset procedure to help eliminate variables

 

[user_deleted]

And cooter dont start crap by trying to make me out as a dumb guy.

cooter is both very knowledgeable and helpful. i've never known him to "start crap."
indulge me here: you have determined you have spark at the plugs. that's good. if you haven't to this point simply try removing the air box cover then the air box filter lid. that will expose your throttle body assembly. dribble a small amount of fuel down the air intake horn onto the body plate, crack throttle slightly and try to start? starts and runs for a few seconds? it's fuel delivery

 

[Cooter]

No, he's right. I'm a total A-hole...

Good luck! We're here to help.

That explains it right there.
[confused]

 

[tonyvp85]

Chicknstripn- i had a tps signal a few days ago on ecmspy and followed the DIY guide and verified with the manual, charged battery and now the tps is not showing any movement on ecmspy..... so im guessing that may be a bit shot.
The battery i have is only a year old, maybe a month or two either direction on calender, but she charges to 12.9V. I have had her bench tested ad she checks out fine. Needed to readjust clutch cable since there was no slop in the cable but the switch is fluked and tested fine. Neutral switch also checks out fine. As far as the BAS, i have no idea. Would it be ok to disable the BAS to check and see if she starts and runs and if so replace the BAS?

PS im going to see if i can get a TPS locally and replace it. Safe then sorry