Need some help. Bike won't stay running

[Joe09]

Hey guys, new over here. Before I describe the problem, I'll tell about the bike and my progress so anyone who can help will know what I'm dealing with.
Bought my 2004 Buell XB12r back in late april. First bike I've ever owned. It has 695 miles on it because it was layed over a couple of weeks after it was bought brand new in 05, then given to the original owners friend to settle a debt. They guy I bought it from (the friend) never had the finances to fix it up, so it sat in his yard under a tarp for six years until he finally decided to sell it. Thats where my story with it begins.
After replacing the parts I needed that were damaged after the lay over, I put it back together and attempted to start it. The fuel pump wouldn't come on. Pulled it out and discovered that 6 years of sitting in old gas had just F***ed it up. Replaced the wires, hoses, filter and regulator. Cleaned the pump out but it just didnt have power to pump fuel up to the rail. So I bought a new pump motor. Now heres where my problem is.
Fuel pumps up to the rail great. The bike cranks strong and will fire and act like its going to idle but then fall on its face. It refuses to stay running. It also backfires through the intake if I try to give it a little throttle. A fellow Bueller suggested reseting the TPS. I got ECMspy, and followed the procedure to a tee. It still does the same thing. One plug was replaced because I broke it trying to take it out. The front plug is still the orginal. I've been through alot with this bike and would love to have it on the road before the season ends. Any input on what I could do would be awesome.

 

[Stevenc150]

No Engine codes thrown in ECMSpy?

 

[Joe09]

Negative. No engine codes

 

[Raze1287]

I was having the same issue the pump would put enough fuel up to the rail but would not have enough fuel to keep running. Would backfire through the intake and fall flat on its face and stall all with in a few seconds. Mine ended up being the fuel pressure regulator. I was only getting 5lbs out of it which was enough to fire it up quick but that was about it.

Put the pump in a bucket of gas check pressure before the regulator and then after see what it says

 

[snrusnak]

Put the pump in a bucket of gas check pressure before the regulator and then after see what it says

I think I've heard somewhere that this is dangerous somehow, it can ignite the fuel or something being open to the air....?

 

[Iamarchangel]

Until you get the other plug out, there's really nothing to discuss.

What the status of the air filter?

 

[Raze1287]

I think I've heard somewhere that this is dangerous somehow, it can ignite the fuel or something being open to the air....?

Never heard that before nor have i ever had an issue, done it quite a few times

 

[snrusnak]

hmmm...I don't know but I know I've heard it somewhere ( I used to have a chevy s10 and malibu that were notorious for fuel pumps failing and replaced them several times, I looked into testing the pump and that's where I heard this, and ended up always just buying a new pump). Maybe it's if the pump is not actually submerged in fuel and you test it? I can't remember that was many years ago and many beers and whiskeys ago...

 

[mattyxb9r]

i had an issue like that. mine was my plug wires not seating cuz the previous owner has broke the wire and cut the boot to fix make it work. check them. maybe it will help

 

[Joe09]

The regulator is brand new. I bought it from Harley. It took forever for them to get it in too. It was on back order for like a week. I hope I didn't get a bad regulator.
I'll take the plug out tomorrow and probably just put a new one in. I have a feeling it won't change anything but we'll see.
I'll check the wires too.
As for testing a pump, I wouldn't suggest using Gas either. Unless maybe its been sitting in the open for a few days in a completely open container and all of the fumes have had a chance to escape. When I was testing the old pump, I used paint thinner. It has a low flash point, so only an open flame would have ignited it. Not a spark from hooking a power source to it.

 

[Joe09]

Took the front plug out and replaced it. Bike still won't run.

 

[Joe09]

Going to try re-flashing the ECM and see if it works. Its possible that after sitting with a dead battery for 6 years, something go messed up.

 

[Iamarchangel]

I'd be looking more at basics. And, yes, six years parked will mess a lot of things up.

All fuel lines could be toast, injectors plugged.

Air filter could be rotted and housing mice. Same for throttle body.

btw, I would also drop some oil in the plug holes just to help keep the rings and the cylinder from getting married.

 

[anrkizm95]

6 years of bad fuel in the injectors.you need to replace them or atleast check the pattern.these pics will give you an idea of how small the holes in the injectors are and good and bad patterns

 

[Joe09]

I've been working on the bike for the last few months, so everything has been cleaned up as much as it can. I am beginning to think it is something in the fuel delivery. I burned a new EEPROM to it this morning and reset the TPS again. It still won't stay running. The air breather and everything is off of the bike, so I can see straight down into the throttle body. When I crank the bike and hold the throttle all the way open, both injectors can be seen spraying fuel in thier sequence. Then I can crank the bike again, this time not touching the throttle at all and it will fire and sound like its going to keep running but it stalls. The longer I hold the throttle wide open and crank it, then crank it with the throttle shut, the longer the bike will try and idle. Is it possible that the full pump isnt being turned on after the bike starts, therefore no fuel is making it to the engine after initial startup? Could it be the Bank Angle Sensor not letting the pump run besides the prime stage? Or does the BAS disable ignition and fuel? I like I said earlier, the bike was layed over 6 years ago before it sat. And also, everything about the fuel pump is new because I rebuilt it. I've been raking my brain trying to come up with a solution.

 

[Iamarchangel]

Stick to the Blessed Trinity: fuel, air, spark at the right time.

It's running for a bit so timing is good. Leave any timing issue alone for now.

You're getting fuel but sounds like it does better with no filter. So, it might be an air issue.

Also sounds like you're playing with the throttle. So, wet foul might be an issue.

You're also going to be confusing the ECM by running it with no filter and playing with the throttle. Leave the sensors alone, you're not there yet.

Your information supports the bad injectors theory.

Here's how it should play out:
engine run switch on;
turn key on; needles will sweep; pump will prime; three lights will come on (green neutral, yellow or red engine, red oil);
engine light will go off;
press starter button;
bike will start (DON'T touch throttle);
if it stalls engine light will come on again: wait for it to turn off; press starter button; bike will start (DON'T touch throttle).

You should not touch the throttle until you're going to put it into gear.

You should turn it off using the engine run switch.

 

[anrkizm95]

you need to focus on fuel delivery.anything fuel has sat in for 6 years needs to be cleaned or replaced first.then focus on other systems.try a little spray when iy whants to die and see if it helps

 

[Joe09]

Well I've never tried to start the bike with the filter on. So I don't know how it will run with the filter. The only reason I was messing with the throttle was for a last resort. I just want get this thing running finally. Is it possible to take the injectors out with the engine in the frame or would I need to rotate it down?

 

[anrkizm95]

Is it possible to take the injectors out with the engine in the frame or would I need to rotate it down?

dont need to rotate the engine.remove throttle body then injectors

 

[jimijeans]

Joe09,May want to start with the fuel pressure delivery. The fuel filter should be new,and sitting like that you will need to replace the fuel filter inside the fuel frame maybe a few times depending on how much it was cleaned out when you removed the pump. When a problem persists like this start from scratch. You could try this simple test BUY a Clear fuel filter and install it close to the throttle body[THIS is Just For Testing purposes ONLY.]Try to strat the bike and watch it to see what goes on. Remove the lines and the injectors so you can replace them or soak them clean. Fuel over time sitting can make almost a Varnish like clear glaze that will stick to the walls and start to break down over time once you put fresh fuel in. The throttle Body where the Fuel fitting is may be in need of attention as well as the throttle body itself.You have done a lot of good work so keep it up.I get many A bike here in the Shop that I pick up really cheap due to lack of attention to it OR A small wreck and it scared the rider enough to sell it.I then go over it sometimes takes me a few months due to the Paying jobs here in shop.You could take some air pressure once you have removed fuel lines and check the throttle body.Also check for any debree down in the intake area as well.The Injectors I would think would be the problem but it sat a while so many areas THE whole Fuel system should be really cleaned.Anrkizm is right the fuel is first.It starts then dies so I wouldn't do anything to ECM till it runs and idles perfectly after some riding and all this is behind you then load what you prefer for your ECM.Take your time you will prevail.*Jimi