New to the forum... Love the buell, hate this problem

[spymac]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum and new to buells. I just bought a 05 xb12r a few weesk ago. I started researching buells because two of my good friends, dave_xb12r and kajer own them. I love the bike so much but it seems to have developed a problem. The bike seemed to run OK on the test ride, however I have never ridden a buell before and figured they were supposed to be a little rough.
These are the problems I am experincing:

Hesitation/rough/inconsistent power delivery on acceel and while curzing

Rough/jumpy idle (between 750-1000rpm)

Hard start when cold. Can crank the starter for over 10 seconds before it will start. If I crank the starter for about 2 seconds and let off, then press the starter again it will start right up.

Low power. dave_xb12r came by this weekend to help me and he rode it and noticed all the same problems.

I have been researching my problem on the forums here and this is what I have done:

1. Change oil to 20w50 HD synthetic
2. Replace plugs with new HD plug (old plus appeared OK?)
3. Breather re-route
4. New battery, charged it to >13v.
5. TPS reset using the ECMspy and Stevens tuning guide
6. Attempted AFV reset, bike would not start so we reloaded stock EEPROM and reset TPS again.
7. Ran 2 tanks of gas with B12 fuel system cleaner.
8. Removed CA charcoal canister system (fuel valve now dumps to atmosphere)

I have ridden 300+ miles in various conditions since the problem occured and it has not shown any improvement. I am looking for any troubleshooting tips I can do this week before I take it to the dealer to get fixed. Thanks all, I am so exited about my XB but I just want it fixed!

 

[Stevenc150]

Might stick some NGK Iridiums in (DCPR9EIX). Even Xopti said in another forum they made for a seemingly "cleaner" idle.

Speaking of idle, might set it a tad higher. Manual calls for 1050-1150. But @ 1100, mine tends to "hang" on decel.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Tork]

Things I'd check:

1. Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor. Check that it's connected. It's usually disconnected temporarily while doing the breather reroute mod and may not have been reconnected while reassembling the airbox. Clean it with a Q-Tip and rubbing alcohol or electrical contact cleaner (available at Radio Shack). Excessive oil residue might make it inoperative or produce faulty or inaccurate temp data to the ECM. You can verify that it's working by monitoring the sensor reading in ECMSPY (should read the ambient air temp when first starting the bike and rise slightly as the engine and airbox warm up).

2. Intake leak. Spray carb cleaner or starting fluid around the intake seals with the bike idling and look for an increase in rpm while spraying (indicating a leak).

3. Spark plug wire connections at the coil, and/or degraded wire insulation somewhere. Look for cracks or evidence of arcing.

4. It's iffy, but you said that it's an '05- Was the bike stored and not started or ridden for a while by the previous owner or dealership? If so, I wonder if the injectors got a little gummy. Fuel additives sometimes take a while (maybe more than 2 tanks) to clean the fuel varnish from the injectors. See if you can find an auto or bike shop that can clean your injectors. I've seen posts on other forums from Buell owners in cold climate areas that park their bikes for the winter and sometimes experience gummed injectors at the beginning of riding season (with similar symptoms as you describe).

 

[LeFox]

next time when you have a problem, don't try a list of things.

try one thing at a time, then you can see if there's an improvement.

the bike needs to run good stock, so doing a breather re-route is an addition for better burn, that can possible hide your malfunction.

do you have a volt meter? measure your battery voltage in 3 phases
- rest
- during start
- while idling

look over the re-route and see if the tube isn't bent.

then, do what tork said, and report every step...

 

[kajer]

the spark plug arcing reminds me of steven!'s samurai... His idle was wacked out and such, he had just installed new plugs / wires. We start inspecting the wires closely, and find that one of the wires was arcing against the head, it was cheap wires and cheap insulation.

if your problem is as simple as spark plug wires.....

The other thing was injectors. Remember the B16 in my CRX, I had to get new injectors because the older ones just gave out after sitting for a few years. the gas just ruined them. I had to get new ones before the motor would work.

 

[dave_xb12r]

Steven-the idle was set according to ECMspy

Tork- 1. the IAT works fine. Tested in ECMspy
2. we used propane to test for leaks exactly how the manual says to. nothing found.
3. Checked spark plug wires resistance, both were fine.
4. injectors.... good idea,

Lefox-Everything was done 1 thing at a time. We'd do one thing at a time, then test it. The battery is new, 1 week old from the dealership. We didnt test voltage, but we topped it off with a charge, no change in performance.


To me, the fuel pump is VERY loud. Even while running, it sounds like a hissing in the tank. My fear is it is fuel pump or fuel filter related. Taking the swing arm off will suck!

Another thing we didn't check was the timing.

Or, could it be the stater? Once it gets over 2500 rpm it starts acting fine, the second it drops below, it wants to die. BUT, no matter what rpm its at, the power just isnt there.

 

[Tork]

You did mention hard starting- It could be a stator or battery problem. The battery checks that LeFox mentioned might reveal a charging problem, a clue that the stator might need replacement. You also mentioned that you have a new battery. I know it's new, but since it's on the list of potential culprits, I'd take it to Autozone and have it load tested just so you can check it off as "verified OK" and help isolate between a battery vs. stator problem. It's rare, but I've bought a new battery that had a funky cell (would take a charge, but would lose it cranking ability after a dozen or so engine starts).

 

[spymac]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Probably the most important thing I forgot to mention is that the bike has been sitting for 6 months to a year with no winterizing.

From the replies given I think I should try the following things in this order:

1) Test battery at auto zone and if it reports good, try the test accoring to LeFox.

2) Remove injectors and see if any place in town will clean them. (unless anyone knows a way to clean yourself)

3) Check ignition system for cracks/ evidence of arching. I have already tested the wires.

4)Re-check for leaks. I dont know that our propaine method worked that well, so I will try with carb cleaner.

Tork: I agree about the breather re-route. I just did it because everyone suggests it, even though I was sure it would not fix a problem.

I feel that the most likely issues are the fuel system and battery. The bike ran perfect before storage, it has only 6k miles, and sat for a long while. The manual also seems to suggest this could be the problem..
"If the motorcycle will not be operated for several months, such as during the winter season, there are several things which should be done to protect parts against corrosion, to preserve the battery and to prevent the buildup of gum and varnish in the fuel system."

Ill try these things and let you all know the result. Thanks!

 

[spymac]

Having absolutely no time to work on my bike, I took it to the local dealer the other day. The culprit... low/inconsistent fuel pressure. They have a fuel pump on order and to my surprise it was covered under the emissions warranty! I think the service writer said it was 5 or 6 years or 18k miles. It will take 7-10 days to get the part and they will see if this fixes the problem or not. I'll keep you guys posted if they find anything new. Thanks for all the help with troubleshooting!

 

[kajer]

bad fuel pump FTL!!! [mad]

 

[dave_xb12r]

Many internets to Kajer, he called it!

 

[kajer]

well, not here on the forums, but rather IRL...

[cool]

 

[spymac]

Picked bike up from the dealer today, running great!

Here is the description and resolution from the repair order.

DESCRIPTION:

CUSTOMER STATES THAT ENGINE IS HARD TO START, WORSE WHEN WARMED UP. STATES THAT ENGINE IS HARD TO KEEP IDLING, AND STALLS WHEN TRYING TO TAKE OFF. ALSO STATES THAT WHEN HE IS RIDING, ENGINE SEEMS TO SURGE AND HAS POOR ACCELERATION.

RESOLUTION:

INSPECTED MOTORCYCLE FOR POOR DRIVEABILITY, CHECKED WIRING TO FUEL PUMP, FOUND LOOSE GROUND PIN FOR SENDER AND REPAIRED. CHECKED FOR INTAKE LEAKS, NONE FOUND. CORRECTED GAP AND CLEANED SPARK PLUGS. FOUND FUEL PRESSURE LOW, REPLACED FUEL PUMP AND ZEROED THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR. ROAD TESTED MOTORCYCLE AFTER REPAIRS, NO OTHER CONCERNS NOTED OTHER THAN RECOMMENDED REPAIRS.

Bike is all fixed and I am happy! Now I can join dave_xb12r, kajer and everyone else who is going to the Bass Lake meet/video shoot on Sunday!

 

[xtremelow]

I hate problem solving, so much easier when others do it for you.

Glad to hear all is well.

 

[buellstorm]

spymac, can I ask how much all of that cost you? I'm fearing that my fuel pump is going bad as the sound it makes is inconsistent (the pitch changes from time to time) and when compared to another XB12R, the pitch is again, different.

Thank you again,
-J

 

[dave_xb12r]

It cost him nothing. Emissions warranty covered it.

You should expect to pay between $350 and $450 on a fuel pump, depending of how nice you are to your parts guy. Then 4 hours of $80/hour. So around $700 to replace the pump

 

[buellstorm]

Dayum.

Thanks,
-J

 

[only1reds]

depending of how nice you are to your parts guy.

Hopefully it'll be a parts GIRL