problem starting up my toy

[04buell12]

OK this is whats going on. My battery kept dying every few days so i'd put it on a charger and it would fire right up, no problem. then it would start to have problems starting up about 4 days later. again.
when I go to start it on these "bad days" , It begins to turn then hesitates for a second, then goes ahead and kicks on. It'll do this for about 2-3 starts then on the 4th ride it won't start. Everything comes on, the fuel pump does its thing and the dials do theres, but it'll just make those rapid clicks the starter makes but no turn over. So i bought a new battery but a week later i'm back to the same problem.
NOW a buddy that does some bike work came in to town and took a multimeter to the battery and measured 12.8V we went to start it and it did its clicking thing (w/o turning over) and the voltage dropped to about 4.5V. When I let go of the button it goes back up to 12.8. He thinks its the starter but i thought i'd check around. never changed the starter and don't know if some starters from XB9's or other years will work.
here's the details of my bike. 2004 XB12s about 10K miles K&N filter OH and NO other problems while running what-so-ever.
I am taking it to autozone tomorrow and have it load tested just in case.

 

[04buell12]

BTW any help is appreciated. anything I can learn is accepted. so thanks even if your just reading this and it helps you in the future.

 

[Rays]

So did the starter crank OK with the fully charged new battery when you first replaced it?
Nothing is certain in this world but the initial symptoms sounded like the charging system wasn't up to speed. The battery connections are always the first port of call but you would have re-tightened these with the battery replacement.
The connection from the subframe to the mainframe is also a point of resistive connection that can cause voltage drop for the starter.
If you can get it started with a charged battery then it should be more like 13.6 volts across the battery with the engine running.
There are several items that can give grief in the charging circuit - the stator , regulator and the connectors in between.
The '77 connector in particular has been the source of many charging headaches and can be thoroughly checked in 20 minutes or so using this guide I put up on Google docs some time back. Don't rely on just looking at it - I have seen this cause trouble many times on XB's and this is often overlooked by people expecting melted, obvious bad connections.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AflAL-QRJACkZDRyYnh3cl8yMGRxNWtoZg&hl=en

I haven't added a section on checking the stator to this guide but that is also straight-forward.
If you look at the diagram in Figure 1 you'll see connector 46. The 46A side of this is the stator connections and is a 4-pin Deutsch connector located under the pulley cover (see Figure 5 item 8).

Remove the cover and with the engine off disconnect the two halves of connector 46. With the multimeter on ohms measure the three connections 1-2, 2-3 & 3-1. The manual indicates this reading should be 0.1 to 0.3 ohms.

You should also check the stator to ground resistance. Connect the multimeter on the highest ohms scale to the engine case somewhere and to each of the three stator connections (they are connected via the low resistance windings so if all the windings had continuity then in reality you only need to check one of these to ground. This reading should be infinity (open circuit).

If you can start the engine then switch the meter to the AC volts range (if it isn't auto-ranging) and with the engine running measure the AC volts across pins 1-2, 2-3 & 3-1. At 2000rpm this should be 32-40 volts AC (16-20 volts per 1000rpm).
Shut the engine off and reconnect the 46 connector.

Something to start with anyway. It may very well be the starter but with such low miles it would unusual I would think and if I understand what you posted it sounded like the starter would work with a freshly charged battery. If I have mis-understood, my apologies - at least you have the info if you ever have to chase an XB charging problem. [smirk]

 

[Buckeyebueller]

Had similar problem with 09 bolt...ended up just being a bad connection with the grounding wire if that helps

 

[bguinn]

From my experiences, you have a bad or weak battery. You can charge a battery, and it will hold the required voltage. But an electric motor is rated in watts, which is volts x amps. Your battery could have the required volts and not have the required amps. If the load (starter in this case) draws more current than the battery can provide, then it will drastically drop the voltage. Which will also in turn try to draw more amps. If this lack of energy continues, usually it will fry the load.

If your system is overcharging, it could fry the battery. The battery will still only charge to a certain voltage however.

Ray seems to have given very very knowledgeable instructions on how to troubleshoot the charging system.

Wow Ray what do you do?

 

[j4nn3]

I'm on the same boat with you, 04Buell12... My '07 XB12S showed the engine light while cruising on a motorway Friday morning. Pulled aside and when tried to start again, the starter only rattled. Called a service guy to pick up the bike (cause I was on my way to work and needed to be there on time). The guy there said it's most probably a bad battery. Anyway, I didn't have time to do anything about it on Friday, and so didn't they [mad]... Hopefully I'll get the bike tomorrow then.

 

[04buell12]

OK i took in my battery to autozone and they load tested it and said it was fine. Yes when i first installed the sealed battery it worked perfectly, but after a week this problem started occuring. the same thing was happening to the old battery and well you could only recharge a battery so many times before it just doesn't hold a charge anymore. anyways they said its fine. I'll check my grounds, and even check the ohms, and voltage when its on. The battery is just off the charger again so i'm sure I'll be able to turn it on.
I think till i figure it out, i might disconnect the battery while its off just in case its pulling some amps just from being connected.
thanks rays Great info and either way i'm giving you a [up] buckeye, you reminded me that i kept having problem with my old buell cyclone and that was it exactly. so i'll be tightening those. bguinn, i asked the guys at autozone how watts related to volts cuz i was doing an LED conversion, and they had no idea, so thanks for the info. more than sure i'm gonna need that. and j4nn3 (which i'm guessing your real name is jenn only cuz thats what j4nn looks like) good luck on that and lemme know what it is

 

[j4nn3]

Well well... Got my bike back today. They said a connector was fried due to bad connection (don't remember exactly, but somewhere near the voltage regulator). So not a battery related issue after all. Everything is good EXCEPT... they obviously forgot to reset the TPS as the bike runs quite shitty now! It was the same thing last time, so I don't think I'm ever going to have my bike serviced there again... Note to self: order a cable for ECMSpy

P.S. My name is Janne, which is a male name here in Finland. No worries though; I have experienced some real confusion with my name in some other international forums (like person being over-friendly or, you know, but doing a fade suddenly when they realize I'm male)

 

[04buell12]

thanks j4nn3 that actually helps a lot and i'm gonna pay attention to that. a fried connection can easily draw extra current.
also i hope i didn't come across weird. awesome to know there's some buell guys in Finland. it almost seems more popular in Europe than it does here. at least in my area buells aren't common

 

[07Bolt]

this is what happened to my '07 firebolt, like Rays mentioned above, faulty connections can lead to damaged wires and connections.

 

[j4nn3]

D'oh! Looks familiar.

I got the bike's TPS reset today, so all is cool for the time being. Hope you get your bike running soon 04Buell12!

 

[04buell12]

OK so i checked my 77 connectors (both sides and they looked fine. well actually real good. No signs of carbon or any high temps. So since i was in there i opened all the connections. they all looked fine. I opened up my 44 connection and while the bike was off was the only way i wasn't able to read any ohms on the between each other. they were all at .05-.15 when the bike was on and when the bike was on the ACV for all three were 17 and when i revved (~2k RPM) the engine they jumped to 35-40. across the battery (bike on and turned) the Voltage read 12.75
now not sure.
Now the 4-pin connector with the 3-wires, when i measered its Ohms with the engine block it said OL for all 3. this is that infinity right? pretty sure. anyways so i think i did all the checks right and they all seemed fine. whats the next step fellas? or do i just take it to the buell dealer and ask for it to be rebuilt/refurbished?

 

[04buell12]

now that updated replacement regulator seems like it may be a way to go. whats your thoughts?