too close to home

[thrstrmech]

so was watching the news Friday night and just about fell on my a$$ to hear that there were two teenage boys planning to bring AK-47's to school and go on a shooting spree on the first day back to school, WTF? both were arrested...the story begins with a local woman who recently moved into a new home, well while she was in her back yard she overheard a father and son talking, but she couldn't believe what she heard coming out of the kids mouth, such as he'd like to kill, etc...hope they arrest the father too...don't know much more about it other than what the news had stated. My son goes to the school where the shooting was set for.

 

[Mark XB12r]

crazy!

 

[thrstrmech]

yeap! just found this article, turns out they boys where chatting online about it and got caught...FBI and local authorities jump on it right away...
Vista Murrieta High School murder plot

 

[uly luigi]

What the hell is wrong with kids these days,

 

[redrider]

Its the parents also!

 

[Iamarchangel]

I'll get into trouble but since you asked…don't you think that NRA BS and 2nd amendment confusion plays a big part here?

Let's see how the answers address the actual situation in context.

 

[OldGeezer]

^^ Nope. Not at all. Just about every adult male in Switzerland had (has?) an automatic weapon and ammunition at home, a requirement as the Swiss army is basically a militia. Yet the Swiss haven't had shootings like in other countries.

Possession of a weapon does not rob a person of their brain or automatically make them irresponsible or murderous.

Another factoid, the States that have the lowest levels of violent crime and murder are States which allow civilian possession and carry or firearms, the States with the highest levels are those 'liberal' States which seek to prevent civilian ownership of weapons.

As regards this specific situation, and those of previous school and other shootings, the failure is the lack of proper socialization and education both on the part of the parents and the schools. Let's face it, in this particular situation the parents are probably the main 'problem' with the school as the secondary proximate cause. The AK-47, a full auto assault rifle is not legal in most states in any case, (I haven't checked to see if it is in this State) so we are most likely talking about an illegal weapon to start with.

The much more interesting question is what drove these kids to this? A normal person does not just wake up one morning and say to himself "gee, I think I'll go and kill my teachers and classmates today". There is usually an underlying cause, a pattern of abuse and cover up, of official willful neglect, which builds up to this. Sociopathic ideation is the result of a process and reflects a failure on the part of the parents and the school.

 

[Zeroflat24]

^ this times a billion [up] i have carried a gun everyday since i was legally able and have never felt the urge to go on a killing spree. People dont need guns to kill. If they didnt exsist they would use some other means.

 

[uly luigi]

Old Geezer, that was the most intelligent thing I have ever heard in response to anti-gunners, you sir, just earned a rep point

 

[OldGeezer]

Thanks uly luigi.

 

[Iamarchangel]

Nope. Not at all. Just about every adult male in Switzerland had (has?) an automatic weapon and ammunition at home, a requirement as the Swiss army is basically a militia. Yet the Swiss haven't had shootings like in other countries.

So, a form of gun control that includes mandatory training, responsibility and accountability is okay? Works for me for the most part.

But… apples and oranges isn't it? That Swiss model is one that the NRA is diametrically opposed to, right?

Responsible people that own guns is not the context of the original question. The question is how did whack kids get guns and the answer is that there really is no restriction and no will to have any restriction.

I would also suggest that recent events seriously discount the safest states are the gun states argument.

 

[uly luigi]

/\Didn't I hear on the news last night that Chicago has had over 30 people violently killed over the weekend, one of the strictest gun city/states, Philadelphia is right up there too, Alabama has had 7-10 so far this year?

 

[OldGeezer]

Angel,

Despite your obvious aversion to the NRA and what it represents, you seem fundamentally ignorant of what it stands for and advocates. Try this link as a starting point to learning a bit about what they actually say and stand for, not what the gun control lobby says: http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp I don't believe the Swiss model and the NRA are fundamentally that far apart.

Of course training, responsibility and accountability are OK. Responsibility and accountability are already mandatory, training probably should be as well. It is really no different than a driver's license. The real issue is not mandatory training, it is that certain elements don't think people should be allowed to have guns, just as there are people that don't think we should be allowed to have 'fossil-fuel' burning vehicles.

In reply to your comment about restrictions, I would point out that Toronto, Ontario, a city which wants to ban all guns, in a Province with very stringent gun control, has had more fatal shootings so far this year than the whole State of Alabama and that 99% of the guns used are illegal. Historically banning and controlling things has never worked when there is a demand, witness prohibition, drugs, sex and guns. The old truism that when the Government bans guns only the Government and the crooks will have them holds true (pardon the pun).

I agree that responsible gun ownership requires training, but I think the problems of which gun crimes are a symptom require more than 'gun control' to fix - though that is an easy target for politicians who don't want to make the hard choices.

I haven't checked for updated numbers from the FBI on violent crimes in over a year, so I cannot comment. However I would point out that despite what the MSM dolts would have you believe, a hot summer is not proof of climate change nor does one shooting change a trend…

As to how whack kids got guns, they were most likely going to acquire it/them illegally on the black market. There are restrictions, but people have always been very good at circumventing them.

More people are killed or injured every year on North American highways than in the entire Vietnam War, and motorcycles are one of the more dangerous forms of transportation - should we therefore ban motorcycles and cars? I would argue no, that what we need is better driver training. Witness the pilots and surgeons who have had hugely decreased accident rates due to education on how to perform their tasks.