XB9 - Rotated Engine Now Doesn't Idle/Run??

[34nineteen]

I don't take offense to that at all and you're right. I tried to leave what was fine alone. I guess I didn't realize they were so prone to failure and a maintenance item more than a "only replace when needed" as I thought. Plus my James Gasket kit didn't come with them and I thought they would so that's my mistake.

Not there yet - I'll try again today and verify it's it for sure.

Its not that they're prone to failure, but their "tucked away" location in the frame is a pain to reach without at least rotating the motor. You can do it with the motor in place, but its a huge PITA.

I've found that with the motor in place, if you use the James blue gaskets with the "lower flange" it is really hard to get everything to line up. You may be better off using stock gaskets. With the motor out, you have more room to work and get the manifold lined up in place. If you are going to do it with the motor in place, and insist on the James Blue gaskets, also pick up a set of HD stockers (make sure you can return them if you dont need them). Also, if you dont have them already, pick up a set of stubby (or curvy) wrenches and one of the curvy HD intake manifold allen wrenches. I wound up also cutting down a old cheap wrench and allen key to get in the confines of there.

Since you have the means to and the know how, and hopefully the bike isnt all the way back together, you may want to consider re-rotating the motor.

Good luck, take pics and if Cooter offers to come over to drink beer and help, don't do it. He will just drink all your beer and leave. He is a jerk.

 

[Cooter]

The Jerk has a WIN on post #2 :eagerness:




and post #16....

 

[brandn3w]

Got actual brake cleaner today and just sprayed it all around. It made it stop surging then on the header side I sprayed heavily on that front cylinder and it died again.

Some smoke from the intake once it was off and I opened the throttle plate and it smelt like brake cleaner as well so that's pretty good indicator it sucked it up.

I have a small 1/2" wrench and I saw taking out the coil and mounting plate makes a difference in space. Also saw someone use a 1/4" deep well socket and extension to get leverage to loosen the allen head bolts.

Going to try that first and if it starts to be a royal pain I'll just rotate the engine. Should not be as long second time down and gives assurance I can adequately torque everything.

Was probably just getting OEM seals honestly after seeing the issues fitting the blue ones. Thanks for the tips!!

Cooter was right (twice!!) or until I replace them he was right!! Praying that's all it is and I'll close it out regardless so others know in the future as well.

Thank you both and all who contributed!! Very small, niche forum but really great support and information. Thank you truly for the time and attention.

 

[34nineteen]

Cooter was right (twice!!)

Hey! We dont talk about stuff like that around here.



Anyhow, the manifold flange bolts shouldnt be on that tight, as the torque spec is pretty low. The trick is just getting a tool in there and trying to rotate the bolts one "flat" at a time. Removing the coil and bracket will help. Make sure to put an large "X" on the coil so you dont mix things up.

Its not that its difficult, its just slow, tedious work. Its an easy peasy 15 minute job on a Sportster, but you'll be on this job for a couple of hours. I actually found dug out my old sleeping bag and camping pillow to support myself while reaching in from below. The injector side is the trickier one of the two.

By the time you are done, you will be kicking yourself for not doing it when the motor was rotated. Oh well, live and learn. Its all good! :up:

 

[34nineteen]

The Jerk has a WIN on post #2 :eagerness:

View attachment 14632


and post #16....

 

[njloco]

At least somebody won today !

 

[brandn3w]

Not 100% yet...

Got HD Intake Seals in after rotating engine tonight and old ones still looked really good. Soft and pliable without signs of leaking on the surface.

Back together and started good and idled better but still surging. After warming up a few minutes I could even slowly rev up last 3K and it come back and surge idle again. Progress!

Left it idle and it shut off with intake backfire the couldn't restart.

Here's couple things:

- Taking off fuel line doesn't spray fuel, isn't it supposed to be under pressure?
- Removed TB and gas poured out, but since I was underneath IDK if it was the TB fuel line or out of the actual TB itself but it seemed like a lot - stuck fuel injector???
- Pulled rear PVC and felt the the rocker arm annnnnd it's still loose on the valve - Is this some how my issue???

Little defeated, but it was $6.46 for seals and took only a few hours to do. Hoping and praying it magically starts and I can ride it tomorrow. Any new thoughts?

 

[34nineteen]

The fuel line is supposed to be under pressure.

You felt the rocker through the pcv valve hole? If it is loose, it means you have a stuck valve or a bent pushrod(s). Or both. If you didn’t wait for the lifters to bleed down before rotating the crank, that could be the case. If it’s a stuck valve, a piston probably already bent it for you. It could also be a failed lifter. All of these are going to involve pulling the motor (again) and resolving before addressing the fuel pump.

 

[Cooter]

Sounds like you have a combination of problems
1) Maybe a little pressure... right after shut down.
2) The TB should only have fuel vapor in it. The line will obviously have a 1/2oz or so. You can check for a stuck injector by having the air filter off, cycling the key several times (run switch on) ops the throttle blade and you should not have raw fuel in the TB base.
3) At TDC and after the lifters bleed down... maybe? A bend pushrod should be easy to see by taking off the rocker cover and spinning it. Doubt it would cause an idle surge though.

You are all over the place with guesses, this could take awhile. IMO pick a system (like the fuel system) and check it from one end to the other, in order.

 

[34nineteen]

The lifters don’t get that loose when they bleed down. At most you may be able to rotate a pushrod but even that requires 2 fingers and a bit of effort. I’m going to guess this is a misdiagnosis, or at least I sure as hell hope so.

If not, welcome to my Buell junkyard of shattered dreams.

 

[brandn3w]

Resolution!! It runs and rides!!

So praise God - super simple fix causing a major issue. Remember the “loose rocker arm” I mentioned when putting it back and thinking it was a lifter needing pumped back up? Well...I missed the lifter when I took the pushrod out to inspect it. :topsy_turvy:

Yep - so dumb and so thankful my friend could stop by and see what I was missing and if the lifter was bad or just not pumping up. Once we took the rocker box off he picked up the intake pushrod and set it back down on the lifter....

Yes - I thought the lifter top was wide enough to just put it in the hole and didn’t realize it actually had to seat in a cup. He had me feel it connect/rest/sit in the cup and visibly see the immediate height difference.

Cleaned everything up and once the rocker box was torqued down I felt instantly better when there was ZERO play. Got it back to tougher partially and started took a second then ran/idled fine.

Got it completely buttoned up and changed and went on a 20 minute ride and feel/sounds fantastic - so relieved.

Feel bad/guilty because you guys are great, honestly and my friend who had an XB12 and has a HD instantly new the rocker arm had WAY too much play and it wasn’t a bled down lifter at that gap size. This is my fault, guys. Sorry, but thank you SO much - what a great community this is and feel super grateful for the help and hey - got new intake seals, better grounds, and another set of new plugs and PLENTY of engine rotations later I’ve gotten (fortunately or not) pretty familiar with the bike.

Have pictures below of the “before” with the pushrod not fully seated. I tried using feeler gauges only to find out the gap was bigger than the ENTIRE set LOL - Ugh - so sorry guys. Thanks again for everything.

If you’re ever in Chicagoland PM me and I owe you lunch (or several lol)

 

[njloco]

Lunch, I hope your talking about the liquid sudsy type, that's the only kind of lunch Cooter understands.

Glad you got it back together and running well.

 

[Cooter]

Super happy you got it figured out!

Just in time for winter.:upset:

 

[brandn3w]

Super happy you got it figured out!

Just in time for winter.:upset:

Thanks, man - really appreciate the urgency and support - meant a lot to help me get me back on it. :up::up:

Actually - when I started this project it was getting cool and so I thought it was a great time to start then the weather has been all over the place. It was 72 yesterday and supposed to be the same today/tomorrow. Totally unexpected considering it has snowed nearly every Halloween week since moving here in 2017.

I feel like I’m stealing by getting to ride here in November so just enjoying these unexpected one-off days while we have them!

 

[Endopotential]

Glad you got it sorted out! I don't think any apologies needed. The more that people post, the more we can learn from.

I've never taken apart my engine down to that level, so it's good to understand all the nuances.

Weather in NorCal has been pretty good too. Got to take my Duke 790 to Thunderhill Raceway for the season closer just yesterday.