'06 (B)Uelly

[c3powil]

Alrighty boys. After letting her sit for a few weeks I finally had the courage to drill into my moto and install the heli kit. It was way easier than expected. Aluminum is soft, I guess. Got the kickstand back on and the exhaust all bolted back up. Ride to work this morning yeilded no rattling... so far.

Thanks for the help and the extra push to get it done right. Future me thanks you even more than present me!

 

[Cooter]

Congrats, thanks for posting the results and glad you are back on the road!

 

[c3powil]

Unfortunately the kickstand fix was not successful. The helicoils seemed solid, but yesterday morning I found the bolts had loosened again. I thought I might just tighten the bolt I had access to and then apply some locktite this weekend. On my way home, though, the kickstand bolts bent as I put weight on the foot peg to swing my right leg over. They must have backed out considerably just on my ten mile ride to work.

It may have been my helicoil job wasn't done well, but but now I don't see how it could be salvaged, aside from installing bigger helicoils and using bigger bolts. But I don't know if I trust my installation ability. At this point I'm thinking about going back to JB Weld...

 

[Barrett]

There is a specific method for addressing and repairing this fairly common XB-XL-XR factory side-stand problem and companion engine case damage associated with same. I applaud your honesty, but given your struggles performing relatively simple tasks such as muffler and belt pulley tensioner removal...I suspect the method might be beyond your skill-set....unless you seek out actual in-person experienced help for assistance.

 

[c3powil]

Thanks for your input, Barrett. I am by no means a master mechanic, and everything I have learned has been from necessity. If I made it seems like removing the muffler was difficult, that may be more due to my lack of having worked on anything with this level of "special engineering" before, and I don't own all the tools that would make this process an easy one.

That said, once I gave it a fair shot, I was able to remove the muffler, install the heli-coils, and replace everything in a few hours time. And now that I am researching further into the issue, I am finding old threads where those who have attempted the very same repair have had it fail as well. I am lucky I've never had my bike fall!

I'm going to pick up some grade 8 bolts, remove the muffler again and inspect the mounting area to determine if the helicoils failed or if the bolts simply backed out and bent. If the helicoils are good, I think I will use the new bolts with a healthy touch of red locktite and see if that holds up.

 

[Barrett]

My pleasure and understood. Short of removing the entire lump from the frame, the tried-and-proven method to successfully perform this repair of the threaded engine case bosses is to:

Drain the fuel from the frame via the fuel pump drain plug
Drain the primary fluid via the primary drain plug
Drain the engine oil via the swingarm drain plug
Remove the battery
Remove the brake fluid from both F&R master cylinders
Remove the airbox plastic outer cover
Remove the right side mirror
Place several large thick packing-style blankets or suitable substitute on floor to right side of bike
Lay bike over on right side atop the blankets
Now you have full proper safe working access to the bottom of the engine case to perform the repairs

 

[Cooter]

A correctly done heli-coil repair is significantly stronger than the OE bolt-in-aluminum. You shouldn't be having this issue

Can you take some close up pics to show us the details of the carnage? Put it in gear so it won't roll, turn the bars all the way to the left, and lean it's right side bar end against a solid wall. Up to 25-30* angle is a lot, and plenty for safe access underneath. A math person could calculate it, but it seems to take about 50-60 lbs to pull it off the wall, so that what it's supporting. Only the right bar end will touch and you can put a glove over the grip if you're worried about scratches.

You could also scoot it by any decent repair shop in your area, no need for specific motorcycle repair, any mechanic should be familiar with heli-coils should be able to point out the issue.

Fear not! Theres always a solution.:up:

 

[34nineteen]

I'm going to pick up some grade 8 bolts, remove the muffler again and inspect the mounting area to determine if the helicoils failed or if the bolts simply backed out and bent. If the helicoils are good, I think I will use the new bolts with a healthy touch of red locktite and see if that holds up.

If the helicoils are failing, the strongest bolts in the world with the strongest locktite is not going to fix it.

 

[c3powil]

I'm going to inspect it again tonight and try to take some pictures. I'm not sure if the helicoils themselves have failed, or if the bolts were the point of failure. It seems like the bolts both backed out enough for the stand to pivot, and as soon as I put weight on the peg, the bolts bent. If that's the case then new bolts and locktite seems to be the answer.

If the helicoils have failed, then I know it was my installation of them that was the issue. Barrett's method of putting the bike on its side does seem to be the most surefire way to get the installation done right. If the helicoils have failed, then I think I'll try that. It would give me a good chance to install a new cooling fan and refurb the fuel pump as well.

 

[njloco]

What is the torque for that bolt with the Helicoil ?

 

[c3powil]

25-27 ft-lbs for the 2010 model year. Mine is a 2006, but I doubt they're that different.

 

[c3powil]

Couldn't get a very good pic. Not sure if that shiny bit is helicoil, or from the bolt bending.

 

[njloco]

You could use a good epoxy, I know some that will give up to 60 ft. #.

 

[c3powil]

Okay, so I removed the muffler again and took off the kickstand.

I found that one of the bolts had come out, but the helicoil had not. The other bolt had bent so much that I couldn't tell if the helicoil dropped or just bent with the bolt and was exposed because of that. Removing one of the bolts yielded a broken bolt. Maybe that's what caused the issue?



I cleaned out the threads and pulled out all of the helicoil. I tried installing new helicoils and they seemed to screw in just fine without dropping out. I think my main issue was not applying any Loctite. The instructions on the kit said to screw in the helicoil only 1/2 turn below the surface, which felt a little dubious since the bolts are 1.25 inches and the helicoil is only about .25 inch. I screwed them in a little further this time. I was able to torque the rear bolt down to the proper lbft, but the front bolt gets to about 15 lbft and just spins without ever tightening further. The bolt definitely isn't broken this time. I suspect there is an issue with the helicoil I installed after all. However, I tried to retrieve the bolt with vice grips, and it just would not come out. I'm not sure what's happening with it, but at this point the kickstand is back on, at least one of the bolts is tightened to spec, and I'm going to ride until I notice the kickstand is loose. If either of the bolts come loose in the future, then it is time for epoxy. I could drain all the fluids and turn the bike over to do a better helicoil job, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

Thanks for all of your help with my bike this far, guys.