BAD GAS

[warren peace]

I keep hearing about BAD GAS...over the winter season.....how does gas go bad.....even with fresh fuel and stabilizer in fall..it still goes bad...again what affects gas enough to go bad....too cold?...moisture?....squirrel pee?

 

[shilohsk8]

The volatile compounds in gasoline evaporate over time causing the gas to have less efficient combustion. Also condensation can build up in a gas tank over time with the same effect, and can cause rust inside your tank.

 

[GatorBuell]

I second shilohsk8, gas looses it octane overtime.

 

[GatorBuell]

I second shilohsk8, gas looses it octane overtime.

 

[warren peace]

I was at the local harley dealer today...spring shopping...speaking to the service staff, there were at least 10 bikes there with WONT START BAD GAS problems...what do you do to prevent this...how come so many?....iv had a every small engine lawnmower etc and dirtbikes,seadoo's...none have had this BAD GAS over winter...except my weed eater...but that was just junk...i know the VOC's to lesson over time...how do you make sure this doesnt happen...other then good fresh higher grade fuel and stabilizeer...etc.....

 

[dave_xb12r]

I know one thing. My bike DOES NOT like chevron! After I removed the CA charcoal canister, every time I fill up at chevron, it sputters and dies. But any other place gas station is fine. My bike is a picky little girl I guess. [sad]

 

[warren peace]

I hav heard that some gas stations are on peoples DO NOT USE list...hmmm....Here in Ontario Canada Sunoco has 94 octane...the highest you can get here...Buella likes it...shes picky too...never had cheaper gas...spoiled princess....

 

[shilohsk8]

Go to a high traffic gas station. That means the underground tanks are being refilled more often. Which mean better gas. The longer gas sits in the underground gas station tanks, the more condensation builds up and waters down the gas. Usually the cheapest gas station is the most popular so that's a win win. I just stay away from Arco and the random stations I have never heard of unless I have no choice.

 

[Buell_Cru]

I work for an oil company. You can't get water in those tanks by condensation unless they are above ground tanks. If the lid to the fill is left open and it's raining then that's another thing. If the station has ethanol blended fuel and it get's water in it then the ethanol will seperate from the gas and become out of spec for that station.

 

[dave_xb12r]

Hey buell cru, why is it that some gas is yellow and some gas is blue? Race gas is blue, so is blue gas better?

 

[maybebuell]

higher the oct like 94 the faster carbon is going to build up on the piston...30 years never got bad gas sitting 4 months through the winter was never a problem

 

[dave_xb12r]

Carbon build up is mostly caused by brand additives. Switching fuel brands every 5000 miles removes carbon build up.

 

[shilohsk8]

Hey buell cru, why is it that some gas is yellow and some gas is blue? Race gas is blue, so is blue gas better?

Most race cars don't run cat's, so the gas is leaded.

 

[shilohsk8]

I work for an oil company. You can't get water in those tanks by condensation unless they are above ground tanks. If the lid to the fill is left open and it's raining then that's another thing. If the station has ethanol blended fuel and it get's water in it then the ethanol will seperate from the gas and become out of spec for that station.

Hey, Buell_Cru, how can you say that underground tanks don't suffer from condensation? with ground water and heat you know H2O can get in anywhere. And I know Ethanol based compounds bond with water faster. But water always will get in anywhere, if we like it or not.

 

[maybebuell]

dave who told you that lol..

 

[ophawk]

From my understanding, the ground tanks get less moisture do to the fact that they are more temperature stabilized. The condensation that does accumulate settles in the bottom of the tank and can't affect the pumped fuel due to a standoff from the bottom of the tank that prohibits sediment/water from getting to the inlet of the pumps. The tanks cant be left open without bypassing automatic closing valves that keep the vapors from escaping into the atmosphere, each transfer truck, has to hook up a product transfer hose and a vent to each tank. When he removes those hoses, the valves shut automatically.
All that being said, I had a '78 Monte Carlo that would not exceed 40mph on Circle-K gas, I would stop anywhere else, add $5 of gas, and it would run fine. Fuels are formulated for different areas, different additives, and can affect any engine. Use a High Volume station, if the Bike don't like it, Try another, if you don't have any other choices, then try the additives/octane boosters.
The color is added to the fuel to identify it during the post refining processes, including transfer. Their is a red dye added to Non Road use Diesel, that they can check for in over the road trucks, if they find the red dye in the tanks, it is a HUGE!!! fine to the Trucker.

 

[dave_xb12r]

dave who told you that lol..

I read it in some chemist's publishing. He basically dedicated his life to trying to find the best fuel brand.

 

[maybebuell]

I read it in some chemist's publishing. He basically dedicated his life to trying to find the best fuel brand.

..think he better get a life ...i live near a place that fills gas tankers...all kind of brand name tankers go there they all get the same gas ...the big name companys all ready have there own additives in the tanker...biggest additive they use is to change the color along with a few others ... the no name tankers pull in the same line with the high end tankers

 

[Buell_Cru]

There are many brands distributed through one loading rack. For instance in Boise we can load Sinclair and Shell brand gas at the Tesoro terminal. If we go over to the Chevron terminal we can pull Chevron, Shell, Sinclair and many other just to name a few. As far as the coloring of the gas, alot of the coloring in gasoline is because of the additives in the different brands such as Techron additive for Chevron and the new Nitrogen enriched Shell fuel. Ophawk is correct about the red died diesel. The reason the fines are so big is because red died diesel is non taxed which means the government is losing on every gallon sold to the public. Red died diesel is designed for construction and farming equipment as long as the equipment is not used at all on the highway. Farmers get busted here in Idaho all the time from using their farming fuel in their pickup trucks. Also the automatic closing valves that Ophawk is referring to for the vapor recovery is only in certain regions. In Boise Idaho and surrounding cities they are installing vapor recovery only on tanks with a 10,000 gallon capacity and larger. If it is under 10,000 gallons it is not required for our region but in Oregon it is required for all stations regardless of tank size. The self closing valves are on the vapor recovery side of the tank and not on the fill side so if the fill side is left open or the plastic cap over the tank is cracked you can get water in the underground tanks also if water accumulates in the spill containment bucket and the bucket has a crack in it then the water can slowly drip into the tank. When we delivery to a station we put a special paste on our tank stick that we check fuel levels with and that paste changes color if there is water in the bottom and we have to report that and pump it out.

Sorry for being so long winded.
[smirk]

 

[Stevenc150]

Sorry for being so long winded.

No need to be sorry, that's some good info. One thing I was wondering is when do they add their addatives? I knew several brands can come from the same terminal, but do the addatives get thrown in when filling the tank at the station, in the truck's tank, etc?