Burning too rich at idle
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Theycallmecrash
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How do you know its too rich.
Maybe a description of your actual problem will aid you better vs assuming its rich.
Maybe a description of your actual problem will aid you better vs assuming its rich.
Too rich is an assumption based on the issues:
Very rough start, seems too be flooding though that doesn't make sense with fuel injection
Fuel injector pump seems to turn over more than it should as well which might indicate electrical issue (it sounds like it continuously pumping when i press ignition button.
Coughs and won't idle, but does better at high revs
also does much better above 20mph, which would seem to indicate that it does better with more air coming in.
that last part is the main reason i feel it's having fuel mix issues, on the rich side.
Very rough start, seems too be flooding though that doesn't make sense with fuel injection
Fuel injector pump seems to turn over more than it should as well which might indicate electrical issue (it sounds like it continuously pumping when i press ignition button.
Coughs and won't idle, but does better at high revs
also does much better above 20mph, which would seem to indicate that it does better with more air coming in.
that last part is the main reason i feel it's having fuel mix issues, on the rich side.
Chicknstripn
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Did this issue start just out of the blue? Have you replaced your air filter recently? If you have a K&N did you recently recharge it and maybe use too much oil?
I would suggest hooking it up to ECMspy or Tunnerpro so you can get a better a view of what's going on.
I once had issues with my xb12r not wanting to start and I couldn't figure out what was wrong until I hooked it up to ECMspy and saw that I had no signal from my TPS. I replaced it, reset it and the bike fired right up!
I would suggest hooking it up to ECMspy or Tunnerpro so you can get a better a view of what's going on.
I once had issues with my xb12r not wanting to start and I couldn't figure out what was wrong until I hooked it up to ECMspy and saw that I had no signal from my TPS. I replaced it, reset it and the bike fired right up!
Theycallmecrash
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The fuel pump once the kill switch has been turned on should prime for about a second. Are you saying it stays running even if you havent started the engine?
a few things to consider, bad Head temp sensor can cause improper fueling when cold or hot
Lagging or biased oxygen sensor, not likely considering your issue is at idle
Aftermarket exhaust? Has the ecm been tuned? These things in own or together can influence fueling during cruising, cause the global fueling or AFV (air fuel value) to be incorrect for starting, warm up or idle.
Leaking fuel injector rare and would have to be very bad, a few cycles of the ignition switch and a test crank can help you determine if this is likely, cause it would become very difficult to start.
Incorrect heat range of spark plugs, some bikes like one plug, others like something else. Theres a science behind it, but too many factors to even try to explain and figure out.
Maybe its not rich, lean can cause idle issues as well, intake seals have been a common issue on XBs common is relative to posts online, ive never actually seen an issue with these unless the bikes been molested.
ECMspy would be a great diagnostic tool for this. Unfortunately a lot issues cant be solved by a quick forum post and throwing a few parts at it. But you now have some things to research. Good luck.
a few things to consider, bad Head temp sensor can cause improper fueling when cold or hot
Lagging or biased oxygen sensor, not likely considering your issue is at idle
Aftermarket exhaust? Has the ecm been tuned? These things in own or together can influence fueling during cruising, cause the global fueling or AFV (air fuel value) to be incorrect for starting, warm up or idle.
Leaking fuel injector rare and would have to be very bad, a few cycles of the ignition switch and a test crank can help you determine if this is likely, cause it would become very difficult to start.
Incorrect heat range of spark plugs, some bikes like one plug, others like something else. Theres a science behind it, but too many factors to even try to explain and figure out.
Maybe its not rich, lean can cause idle issues as well, intake seals have been a common issue on XBs common is relative to posts online, ive never actually seen an issue with these unless the bikes been molested.
ECMspy would be a great diagnostic tool for this. Unfortunately a lot issues cant be solved by a quick forum post and throwing a few parts at it. But you now have some things to research. Good luck.
^ dude, that car didnt have a MAP? lol
most 'high end' EFI systems have correction tables for that.....
anyways, back on subject....definitely hooking it up to a diagnostic utility would be best. my guess is that its actually probably lean. in my experience with these engines, they can handle pretty rich scenarios, but when they lean out (even at idle) to leaner that 15.5:1 AFR it REALLY has a hard time keeping up with itself. itll idle all the way to almost 17:1 but runs like crap, hesitate, sputter....all the common complaints of buell owners. lol
if its rich enough for it to run in a similar fashion to the way it runs when too lean, you would DEFINITELY smell it so bad you wouldnt be able to stand near the bike without passing out. haha
most 'high end' EFI systems have correction tables for that.....
anyways, back on subject....definitely hooking it up to a diagnostic utility would be best. my guess is that its actually probably lean. in my experience with these engines, they can handle pretty rich scenarios, but when they lean out (even at idle) to leaner that 15.5:1 AFR it REALLY has a hard time keeping up with itself. itll idle all the way to almost 17:1 but runs like crap, hesitate, sputter....all the common complaints of buell owners. lol
if its rich enough for it to run in a similar fashion to the way it runs when too lean, you would DEFINITELY smell it so bad you wouldnt be able to stand near the bike without passing out. haha
So another thing while i'm here with the bike running ecm spy. The fuel pump seems to continuously prime while i'm pushing the starter and for a few seconds after if the bike hasn't started up.
Getting some weirdness with the TPS reset as well, what the angle my tps should read with the throttle all the way open? again xb9r 2005.
Also am i gonna need to buy the eeprom from ecmspy? or can i run the necessary diagnostics without it?
Getting some weirdness with the TPS reset as well, what the angle my tps should read with the throttle all the way open? again xb9r 2005.
Also am i gonna need to buy the eeprom from ecmspy? or can i run the necessary diagnostics without it?
The eeprom is the programming on the ECM. You can "fetch" the eeprom from your ECM using ECMSpy to keep a copy safe on your computer. It's a very wise thing to do if you start messing with the fuel maps. Keep a few copies in different locations so you know you will always have a known "good" starting point.
Theycallmecrash
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Nope, and high end like our bikes? It was an older edlebrok pro something crap, rpm/throttle position with a single narrow band.
Installed a wide band, to monitor they had a base calibration for a 351 loaded thinking thats what is was and really only a 302, the fuel pressure regulator was broken, the pcv was literally a straight hose from manifold vacuum to valve cover, exhaust flange gaskets leaking, and the fuel injection was wired for the wrong firing order. Fresh built setup 7 miles on the car. After fixing all the builders crap, finally got a good tune on it, and the owner takes it to colorado above 6k ft... of course it had issues starting and sluggish.
Man this is some unfriendly software. With through the process of gettin turner pro to talk to my xb (by watching that mike cobb youtube video. and i can see my fuel maps and have saved a copy of my eeprom to go back to if i **** this all up.
But i'm having a hell of a time finding diagnostic tools, so i go to purchase activation from ecmspy and i'm stuck on this keyfile. What exactly is it asking for? I've chosen my BUEIB eeprom etc but keyfile is a broswe button with no indication of what it wants.
But i'm having a hell of a time finding diagnostic tools, so i go to purchase activation from ecmspy and i'm stuck on this keyfile. What exactly is it asking for? I've chosen my BUEIB eeprom etc but keyfile is a broswe button with no indication of what it wants.
Actually i starting to think this whole thing is a bad wiring issue. I notice the cluster and fuel pump switch in and off when i jostled the cables coming from the igniton key switch. Might explain why the fuel pump is priming constantly
Right I am now having to trickle charge my battery as i had the bike on this whole time while figuring out these softwares with it running. While it charges i thought i'd list out the issues i'm having and what i've noticed in the hopes of figuring this all out as i think there is more than one issue now:
Issues:
- Rough start and throttle lag until about 6000 rpm in neutral
- Won't idle
- lots of back firing and popping out the air intake, especially at startup and low rpm.
Factors:
- Just changed out a burned clutch. Replaced with energy one kit
- Bad wiring, the bike has a new igniton key unit as it was once stolen
- Alititude, i live at 7280ft above sea level here in Colorado, previous owner also lived at around 5000ft above sea level, so bike may have been tuned for altitude
- Hole saw mod done to air box. Two large holes cut out of either side
- Voltage at battery at idle is arond 12.75 so it's not getting as much as it should, maybe due to bad wiring at key switch
I'll try to get some images of my fueal maps up soon, i'm thinking ecmspy wis worth the investment unless you all think learning tuner pro is a better way to go?
Issues:
- Rough start and throttle lag until about 6000 rpm in neutral
- Won't idle
- lots of back firing and popping out the air intake, especially at startup and low rpm.
Factors:
- Just changed out a burned clutch. Replaced with energy one kit
- Bad wiring, the bike has a new igniton key unit as it was once stolen
- Alititude, i live at 7280ft above sea level here in Colorado, previous owner also lived at around 5000ft above sea level, so bike may have been tuned for altitude
- Hole saw mod done to air box. Two large holes cut out of either side
- Voltage at battery at idle is arond 12.75 so it's not getting as much as it should, maybe due to bad wiring at key switch
I'll try to get some images of my fueal maps up soon, i'm thinking ecmspy wis worth the investment unless you all think learning tuner pro is a better way to go?
Theycallmecrash
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Popping out intake is a symptom of lean, if that helps you in the right direction
Theycallmecrash
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Doubt the map is the issue.
Did you manage to download the xdf file for diagnostics? The one that allows you to view running data and graphs, we wanna know what your AFV value is for starters, have that reset and see differences in performance from there
Did you manage to download the xdf file for diagnostics? The one that allows you to view running data and graphs, we wanna know what your AFV value is for starters, have that reset and see differences in performance from there
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