Burning too rich at idle
- Thread starter LazySatyr
- Start date
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Chicknstripn
Well-known member
Lazy- I'm not trying to be a smart ass but you really should read through as many of the ECMspy and Tunnerpro threads as you can before you mess something up in your ECM. I use ECMspy and I know I'm not a pro! GB will tell ya so! But I still read and research before attempting anything that alters the brains of the bike.
Also it's a good idea to unplug the fuse to your headlights while you're doing all this diagnostic stuff. Saves the battery from dying as quickly.
Also it's a good idea to unplug the fuse to your headlights while you're doing all this diagnostic stuff. Saves the battery from dying as quickly.
ha crash, so basically a digital carburetor on that ford, eh? lol thankfully ive never messed with those systems but i hear theyve come a long way. Ive only tuned ECMs from ELectromotive (what I run on my turbo engine swapped GTi), Motec, hondata, HP tuners (ecm tool)....
all of which have adjustments that account for all environmental variables. i wouldnt consider our bikes high end in terms of I/O capability. they are pretty good at keeping performance at a good level once everything is tuned. unfortunately, EPA had a lot to do with the out-of-the box tune.
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im gonna say to start with the wiring.
did this all happen suddenly? or has it gradually gotten worse?
dont let Chickn fool you. hes a pro by now! haha
all of which have adjustments that account for all environmental variables. i wouldnt consider our bikes high end in terms of I/O capability. they are pretty good at keeping performance at a good level once everything is tuned. unfortunately, EPA had a lot to do with the out-of-the box tune.
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im gonna say to start with the wiring.
did this all happen suddenly? or has it gradually gotten worse?
dont let Chickn fool you. hes a pro by now! haha
Chicknstripn
Well-known member
Sounds like you have a short in your fuel pump. Check out the DIY fuel pump thread. Dispite this issue I doubt it's related to you fueling issue. Have you run a diagnostic yet? Any codes pop up? Have you checked for an intake leak?
I had an intake leak a while back and it caused al sorts of idle and popping/caughing issue.
BTW if you have multiple mechanical issues going on it's going to be really difficult to figure out what the ECM is trying to compensate for.... Sorry this response doesn't really help you find a solution. However, I would first make sure EVERYTHING is mechanically sound with the bike before I would start messing with the fueling
I had an intake leak a while back and it caused al sorts of idle and popping/caughing issue.
BTW if you have multiple mechanical issues going on it's going to be really difficult to figure out what the ECM is trying to compensate for.... Sorry this response doesn't really help you find a solution. However, I would first make sure EVERYTHING is mechanically sound with the bike before I would start messing with the fueling
the pump when engine is running will also always run.
this provides a steady stream of fuel to the rail and injectors. whats not used by the injectors is returned to the tank from the regulator side.
the pump under normal conditions should do the following...
key on, ignition on, NOT cranking -> pump primes for 1-2 seconds, then turns off if no crank signal is detected
key on, ignition on, starter button pressed -> pump will prime and remain on if engine starts and runs. if engine fails to start, pump will stop running for the 1-2 seconds of 'priming' duration.
key on, ignition on, engine running then dies -> pump will run for the 'prime' period duration, then turn off until either ignition is cycled or starter button is pressed to trigger a crank signal again
this provides a steady stream of fuel to the rail and injectors. whats not used by the injectors is returned to the tank from the regulator side.
the pump under normal conditions should do the following...
key on, ignition on, NOT cranking -> pump primes for 1-2 seconds, then turns off if no crank signal is detected
key on, ignition on, starter button pressed -> pump will prime and remain on if engine starts and runs. if engine fails to start, pump will stop running for the 1-2 seconds of 'priming' duration.
key on, ignition on, engine running then dies -> pump will run for the 'prime' period duration, then turn off until either ignition is cycled or starter button is pressed to trigger a crank signal again
thanks gballas that makes me think the pump is fine as that behavior is what my pump does.
chikn, there is a short but it's at the ignition, gonna sort that out, but i think your right, that it's unrelated to the fueling issue. Gonna run tunerpro for error codes today hopefully depending on how much free time i have. Are there any obvious signs of an intake leak i can look for?
thanks for all the help guys
chikn, there is a short but it's at the ignition, gonna sort that out, but i think your right, that it's unrelated to the fueling issue. Gonna run tunerpro for error codes today hopefully depending on how much free time i have. Are there any obvious signs of an intake leak i can look for?
thanks for all the help guys
no prob.
electrical gremlins for some reason cause all kinds of drivability issues with these bikes. so be 100% sure those systems are up to par.
i would also just use ECMspy since youve got a 2005. the older free version (not the mono) should be enough to do whatever you need and no funky translation files are needed.
electrical gremlins for some reason cause all kinds of drivability issues with these bikes. so be 100% sure those systems are up to par.
i would also just use ECMspy since youve got a 2005. the older free version (not the mono) should be enough to do whatever you need and no funky translation files are needed.
Um ok guys here's what i've got:
Bad wiring issue resolved, was just a bad connection at the igntion key switch,
Ran all the diagnostic tools available to ecmspy ver 1.12.26(non mono ver), no error codes present.
did notice during diagnostics that the front coil was much louder than the rear, checked connection to spark plugs, seems solid (did have an issues with the rear one being loose before). I do still wonder if this could be a bad spark issue though.
AFV value is 125% tho i have no idea what this means (will look up).
Bad wiring issue resolved, was just a bad connection at the igntion key switch,
Ran all the diagnostic tools available to ecmspy ver 1.12.26(non mono ver), no error codes present.
did notice during diagnostics that the front coil was much louder than the rear, checked connection to spark plugs, seems solid (did have an issues with the rear one being loose before). I do still wonder if this could be a bad spark issue though.
AFV value is 125% tho i have no idea what this means (will look up).
Theycallmecrash
Well-known member
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Holy AFV batman! 124.5!!! That indicates approximately 25% additional fueling, all around. So cruising its thinking youre leaned out, which could actually over fuel start up and idle.
Reset the AFV to 100 and test ride, report results.
Reset the AFV to 100 and test ride, report results.
Theycallmecrash
Well-known member
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Also the tps should not read zero. What procedure did you follow to set that?
yeah i messed up the tps reset and i'm doing it again, but i think there maybe an error there too as the tps is not reading anything when i move the throttle.
also i discovered a couple things, one the idle speed screw had come completely loose, that thing is a bitch to get back in, and the front spark plug cable was loose at the top where it connects to a small black box by the air intake, some sort of timer or rectifier i'd imagine. guessing that might have been an issue also.
i'll reset afv to 100% and get back to you with results. thanks again
also i discovered a couple things, one the idle speed screw had come completely loose, that thing is a bitch to get back in, and the front spark plug cable was loose at the top where it connects to a small black box by the air intake, some sort of timer or rectifier i'd imagine. guessing that might have been an issue also.
i'll reset afv to 100% and get back to you with results. thanks again
Theycallmecrash
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That box is the ignition coil, 1 runs both plugs. If loose could be an issue.
Awaiting report
Awaiting report
ok so i still haven't gotten as far as to test the bike with afv reset to 100%. 2 reasons. 1 i got called into work and 2 ecm spy is still not showing me anything from the TPS.
I get a voltage reading but it doesn't change and the angle is stuck at zero despite twisting the throttle.
I think this is a new issue.
I get a voltage reading but it doesn't change and the angle is stuck at zero despite twisting the throttle.
I think this is a new issue.
Never mind that tps thing was user error, just me being a dumb ass
set afv to 100% and she started up and idled much better but at around 900 which i belive is a bit low.
however when i gave her some revs while it was strong down low when i got up to 4000 it just fell right back down to 1-2000 rpms. If i had to guess i'd say the ecm is causing that but it's a guess.
Tps looks good and I do think the cable to the igniton coil was the startup and maybe the idle issue but i'm not sure whats goign on now.
All testing was done in nuetral i have not yet put a load on the engine
set afv to 100% and she started up and idled much better but at around 900 which i belive is a bit low.
however when i gave her some revs while it was strong down low when i got up to 4000 it just fell right back down to 1-2000 rpms. If i had to guess i'd say the ecm is causing that but it's a guess.
Tps looks good and I do think the cable to the igniton coil was the startup and maybe the idle issue but i'm not sure whats goign on now.
All testing was done in nuetral i have not yet put a load on the engine
I tried it with the AFV at 110% just to see what the difference was and there was none i could notice.
Lots of backfiring up the air intake but not out the exhaust. Engine sounds bassier then before if that makes any sense.
here's my last readout from ecmspy w AFV @100%
Lots of backfiring up the air intake but not out the exhaust. Engine sounds bassier then before if that makes any sense.
here's my last readout from ecmspy w AFV @100%
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