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Climate vs Oil Levels in the XB
- Thread starter GregoXB
- Start date
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thrstrmech
Well-known member
inaccurate reading... since the oil will be thicker in colder temps vs warmer, would stick in lines, ports, bearings, etc.
thrstrmech
Well-known member
dunno, never lived in a cold climate environment to say what it would be
GregoXB
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- Feb 1, 2012
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I think it's the extremities of the engine that have oil which are most effected, oil return lines and such. They cool down extremely quickly when it's 25F. The conundrum is also that you have to let the oil settle a little bit to get a good reading.
user_deleted
Inactive
grego: i've posted this numerous times before. outside air temps....relative humidity...altitude....phases of the moon......have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on oil levels. the correct procedure to check XB oil level is: ride until motor has reached sufficient operating temp. that means you can feel warmth on the surface of the swingarm in the area of the dipstick hole. shut off. park on level surface with bike on sidestand. dismount. stand there a moment and admire your machine. now remove dipstick and check. your looking for the oil to be within the proper range as per dipstick markings. anything other than this method typically yields wildly inconsistent readings.
user_deleted
Inactive
^^^^^ southern PA.....amish country. about 15 miles above the MD line.
thrstrmech
Well-known member
should have read the title through...my aviation hat was on at the time when thinking about your question. lunatic nailed it. think my old age is catching up to me or my train of thought is drifting, less focused at times. guess it's time for Geritol
Tbone
Well-known member
I grew up in a midwestern Coastal City known as Chicago. The oldest son of a heavy equipment mechanic in the excavation & demolition industry. When the old man needed an extra set of hands, wrench gopher, light holder, either can jockey, reach in tight places, you can't bitch until the job is done no matter how frozen you are, Shut up and hand me the EFFnn torque wrench son. This was my childhood. Needless to say in the -20F with a -40F windchill it was always standard for my old man to use Marvels Mystery Oil in the crankcase during the winter of every engine I think he ever worked on. When your paycheck relied on equipment starting in the middle of winter that is how he made it happen. I can say first hand his equipment always started, as I usually witnessed with an either can in my hand. Now I live in Texas, so calling out someone on where they live does not necessarily indicate on what they know? Just saying, I do not know much but what I learned is by having sweat in the game and that does not require you live in any certain area does it? Sorry for the long post, it is New Years Eve an I am feeling nostalgic.
rah7777777
Well-known member
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I've checked my oil on a 75 degree day and 2 days later on a 30 degree day (Texas) and it was identical.
Just have the engine warmed up before checking.
Just have the engine warmed up before checking.
go cytocis
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- May 28, 2012
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I ride year round in a climate that varies from -20c (~0f) to + 40c (~100f). I have run an oil pressure gauge on several air-cooled & water-cooled bikes I've owned (albeit not on my XB). I can attest that I've never observed a variation in oil pressure (and therefore viscosity & volume), once up to engine operating temperature, regardless of ambient temperature.
Cooling systems are designed to keep the motor at an even operating temp under all but the most extreme climate conditions. You'll not see any variation in oil dipstick level relative to where you live.
Cooling systems are designed to keep the motor at an even operating temp under all but the most extreme climate conditions. You'll not see any variation in oil dipstick level relative to where you live.
Tbone
Well-known member
Just thinking out loud here, I could be wrong, trying to use logic.
I think cold conventional oil volume/density changes with temp? Colder oil has less volume and hot oil has more volume? I think Conventional Multi-Weight oil amplifies this beause of the polymer additives(VI) that expand to increase the viscosity of the oil at higher temps?
With that said above, synthetic oils are far superior to conventional oils because they do not need polymer additives to achieve the higher viscosities at higher temps? As a result synthetics do not breakdown under high heat and pressure.Conventional 10w-40 for example when the additives are destroyed is a dirty 10W. Synthetic 10W-40 has no additives to destroy so can maintain the viscosities even when it is dirty. Also wonder if the volume of synthetic oil is also more consistent, which ties this in with the original post about oil levels.
I think cold conventional oil volume/density changes with temp? Colder oil has less volume and hot oil has more volume? I think Conventional Multi-Weight oil amplifies this beause of the polymer additives(VI) that expand to increase the viscosity of the oil at higher temps?
With that said above, synthetic oils are far superior to conventional oils because they do not need polymer additives to achieve the higher viscosities at higher temps? As a result synthetics do not breakdown under high heat and pressure.Conventional 10w-40 for example when the additives are destroyed is a dirty 10W. Synthetic 10W-40 has no additives to destroy so can maintain the viscosities even when it is dirty. Also wonder if the volume of synthetic oil is also more consistent, which ties this in with the original post about oil levels.
mrlogix
Well-known member
the deviation of oil density/viscosity/displacement at ambient temps we live in should have a minimal effect as far as checking level. Following the procedure of warming the engine to normal operating temp takes ambient conditions out of the question. Once again lunatic nailed it.
GregoXB
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I guess in like 20F weather the engine will cool down significantly faster, so you have to check the oil very soon after turning off the engine. Where as in 90F the oil stays hot much longer and you can wait longer and still get an accurate read. I know, in my case, when its cold, if i wait beyond 2-3 minutes the oil contracts really fast and it barely hits the low mark on my dipstick. Where as in the summer I can wait even 10 minutes and the oil will still be at the halfway mark.
mrlogix
Well-known member
deviation is due to drain back which is a factor of viscosity more than ambient temp change in oil volume
mrlogix
Well-known member
The Thermal expansion of oil is called Dilatation and is Beta = 0.0007 (C-1) Change in Volume . Oil in the water expansion tank but no water in engine oil?
volumetric temperature expansion
Specific volume of a unit can be expressed as
v = 1 / ρ = V / m (1)
where v = specific volume (m3/kg)
ρ = density (kg/m3)
V = volume of unit (m3)
m = mass of unit (kg)
The change in the units volume when temperature change can be expressed as
dV = V0 β (t1 - t0) (2)
where dV = V1 - V0 = change in volume (m3)
β = volumetric temperature expansion coefficient (m3/m3 oC)
t1 = final temperature (oC)
t0 = initial temperature (oC)
The density of a fluid when the temperature is changed can be expressed as
ρ1 = m / V0 (1 + β (t1 - t0))=ρ0 / (1 + β (t1 - t0)) (3)
where ρ1 = final density (kg/m3)
ρ0 = initial density (kg/m3)
the volume deviation comes out to about a 0.06% change over an 80 degree F delta, e.g., 2.7 quarts at 20 F equals 2.862 quarts at 100 F. The volume change is minimal. The amount reflected on the dipstick would be reflective not only of the dilatation of oil, but also the shape/design of the chamber the oil is contained in. a narrower section causing a greater displacement of level verses a wider chamber.
volumetric temperature expansion
Specific volume of a unit can be expressed as
v = 1 / ρ = V / m (1)
where v = specific volume (m3/kg)
ρ = density (kg/m3)
V = volume of unit (m3)
m = mass of unit (kg)
The change in the units volume when temperature change can be expressed as
dV = V0 β (t1 - t0) (2)
where dV = V1 - V0 = change in volume (m3)
β = volumetric temperature expansion coefficient (m3/m3 oC)
t1 = final temperature (oC)
t0 = initial temperature (oC)
The density of a fluid when the temperature is changed can be expressed as
ρ1 = m / V0 (1 + β (t1 - t0))=ρ0 / (1 + β (t1 - t0)) (3)
where ρ1 = final density (kg/m3)
ρ0 = initial density (kg/m3)
the volume deviation comes out to about a 0.06% change over an 80 degree F delta, e.g., 2.7 quarts at 20 F equals 2.862 quarts at 100 F. The volume change is minimal. The amount reflected on the dipstick would be reflective not only of the dilatation of oil, but also the shape/design of the chamber the oil is contained in. a narrower section causing a greater displacement of level verses a wider chamber.
