Clutch slipping under load

[TPEHAK]

Probably Barnett clutch plates fault. Maybe I need to use Buell clutch plates. I'm going to inspect them soon.

I'm wondering where are those metal chips from? From clutch dog? From starter gear?

 

[rchuff]

Can you see an on going theme here? It is everyone else's fault but the guy who installed it. Good thing you are an engineer. Lol!!

 

[TPEHAK]

Found a couple of shaved teeth on the starter ring gear. Also the top area of all the teeth are slightly worn. It looks like this is the source of the metal chips.

Service manual says if ring gear are badly worn or damaged, replace the clutch shell. But I think it looks OK, just a couple shaved teeth. I do not think the motorcycle is so bad that it can garbage the gear in 22000 miles, people do not replace their clutch shell for many miles with no issues.

 

[TPEHAK]

Visual inspection showed nothing bad is happening in the clutch.

Damping spring and damping spring seat look perfect, no discoloration, no distortion.

The clutch disks look almost like new, no any warpage or discoloration, no burning, no overheating or anything.

The spring looks like new, same height as new, same color, nothing is wrong

The pressure plate looks OK, the pressure face justs barely rubbed

 

[TPEHAK]

Holy cow! Look at what I found.


First of all, I found the issue. The friction plates pads are rubbed off below service limit. The Barnett friction plates pack thickness with 11000 miles on it is about 16.3mm (service limit is 16.8 mm)

The new Barnett clutch pack thickness is 17.8 mm

My old original Buell friction plates pack with 11000 miles is 17.8 mm! They are like new! So, DO NOT BUY BARNETT CLUTCH PLATES if you want your clutch last long, use original Buell clutch plates. I do not know what are benefits of that Barness clutch plates, maybe they are capable to hold bigger torque, but they will not last more than 11000 miles.

Full pack of plates thickness is 27 mm for 11000 miles Barnett and 29 mm for new Barnett. So minus 2 mm in 11000 miles.

The only reason I replaced the original Buell clutch plates is some chattering during engaging, but I found the Barnett does the same. So probably I have just to install the original Buell clutch plates with 11000 back.

 

[TPEHAK]

Buell starter overrunning clutch is garbage too.

 

[rchuff]

nice work TEABAG! let's review your partial list of "garbage parts from inferior manufacturers" thru the years:
buell VR's
buell stators
buell brake rotors
buell rear master cylinders
BUELL MOTORCYCLES
James Gaskets
Barnett clutch components
EBC brake components
EBR motorcycles

And you know the list is only going to get bigger!!

 

[TPEHAK]

I also found a pretty big chunk of metal in the primary case shaved off the starter ring gear tooth.

 

[TPEHAK]

Alright, the new Barnett clutch has been installer so motorcycle should be good to go another 11000 miles. Will see how it will work. After 11000 miles I will install my old Buell clutch or maybe will buy new Buell clutch plates. I installed the Barnett clutch because of it looks like I will need to replace the clutch basket soon anyway, the starter gear ring is going to be worn even more, so in 11000 miles I will replace these stuff all together.

Hopefully tomorrow I will test the fresh clutch plates and will report you back. So stay tuned.

 

[njloco]

Don't take this the wrong way but, you really need to take an English writing class or at the very least read your post before posting it up.

Installed
"Alright, the new Barnett clutch has been ^installer"

the
" so^ motorcycle should be good to go another 11000 miles"


It's which I
"Barnett clutch because of it ^ looks ^ like

this
"11000 miles I will replace these ^ stuff all together."

back to you
"Hopefully tomorrow I will test the fresh clutch plates and will report ^ you back. So stay tuned."

I'm not perfect but I try to be and, I'm dyslexic !

 

[TPEHAK]

I think that's fine. Resources of human brain are limited, so I prefer to learn something more important than learn how to English.

 

[Chicknstripn]

Seems like how to properly maintain your Buell is beyond those resources too.
Good luck with the clutch fix!

 

[TPEHAK]

The most important thing is you are able to understand me.

 

[TPEHAK]

Finally I have tested the clutch. Wow, the new clutch plates are so grippy, no slipping at all at full throttle. So, if your clutch slips and adjusting the clutch does not help, just replace the clutch plates. Do not use Barnett clutch plates, use original Buell clutch plates if you can find it, it will last longer and it is probably cheaper than Barnett. Probably Barnett is good for racing application but not for daily city riding.

 

[Cooter]

So you hijack a thread from 2011, and the very next post told you to change the clutch. It took you 6 bloody pages of arguing with yourself, to actually do it.

Congratulations.

At the risk of you writing 6 more pages of mental masturbation.... Did you replace the spring like Lunatic said? The free height comparison side by side won't well you anything, it is a spring it's job is to resist deflection. Unless you test it that way, you'll never know and a weak one will wear out a clutch quickly.

 

[Cooter]

So, if your clutch slips and adjusting the clutch does not help, just replace the clutch plates.

Your conclusion mostly correct if you add frictions, steels, and diaphragm spring (like Lunatic said) and "adjusting" a slipping clutch will never fix it unless it was adjusted incorrectly which would cause a slip immediately. Because you can't "adjust" a clutch to hold any tighter than the spring holds the pack already.

 

[TPEHAK]

I installed the new spring but I feel no difference in lever resistance force, the force is the same as it was before. I'm sure I can install the old spring and it will work the same.

By the way, I reused the primary cover gaskets. Those gaskets have maybe 4 or 5 installations on them already ant still no leak. I also reused the shifter seal, it has 2nd installation on it. Manual says to replace all those gaskets, but I decided to take the risk and see if they will work with multiple reusages. I know you guys are afraid to do anything other than manual says, so stay tuned, I will report back to you how they perform when I will have more miles on them.

 

[Cooter]

You couldn't feel a difference in the spring unless you have a calibrated Terminator arm or something, you wouldn't even feel the slipping clutch with a slightly weak one installed. It would just wear the frictions out faster.

Install the old spring and see if the clutch lasts. I'll wait for your report.

Re-using gaskets is fine by me as long as its not under pressure. I wouldn't try that with head gaskets... The primary isn't under pressure so you'll be fine, unless you damaged the gasket in one of your "4 or 5 installations".

Deviating from the prescribed manual instructions can be ok if you possess common-sense, experience, and mechanical skill. Not sure if that applies in this case:angel:

 

[TPEHAK]

We will know soon enough. You guys will be surprised how good those primary case gaskets are. They can survive multiple installations. Too bad the Buell engine internal components do not match those primary case gaskets lifespan.

 

[Cooter]

You're funny I'll add a Buell primary gasket to the list of ever lasting stuff blowing around in the apocalyptic wind....

BTW, I'm pulling a primary cover off today to heli-coil a primary chain adjuster bolt. I'll re-use the gasket if it comes off clean, and I don't even blame Erik for that stripped bolt:sleeping: