disgusted with our own government

[konarider94]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-protests-20110303,0,7382749.story

our own government wont even stand up for the people who defend this country. this disgusts me. politicians are a bunch of cowards. you dont see the military going on strike asking for more benefits, instead they lose benefits and still go back to work. apparently they dont even have a right to a peaceful funeral.

can you imagine if the military went on strike. just let anyone into military bases. hey you want this plane go for it. it would never happen because these people actually believe in something greater than themselves.

dont even reply if you think protests at a funeral are ok just keep it to yourself. i am pretty sure this topic has been covered before but i just saw this on the news tonight and it got me all pissed off. i hope i never see one of these protests, i will end up in jail.

 

[anrkizm95]

never been for this war but if we are sending are fellow americans to fight.they deserve top rate medical care,peaceful funerals,high death benefits,theyre familys deserve to be treated right if they die free higher education for their children,wives that dont need to worry about childrens future.and those bastards that picket funerals need to be beaten with a bat.or extradited to a war zone theyre choice of the two.

 

[upthemaiden]

I've heard general things about what this group is about, but I haven't really followed any of the stories. Gotta say I'm confused what anti-gay protesters are doing at military funerals??

Regardless of peoples opinions of the government/military on this forum(I know mine aren't always the same as a lot of people on here), I haven't really come across anyone on this forum that I think would encourage any kind of protests at military funerals, myself included.

 

[konarider94]

not many things get me into rant mode but this seems to be one of them. both my parents are in the military, well now retired but I know how i felt when my dad was in Iraq. Some of his friends did not come back with him, i even knew some of them. I am lucky enough that he did come home, but I cant imagine what its like to have to experience this as one of the family members at a funeral.

 

[2004xb12s]

I don't know how these son of a bitches think that it is ok to protest at someones funeral when the family is grieving...if they don't respect soldiers that are willing to die for Americans they don't even know then they can get the hell out of this country! [mad]

 

[BuddhaBuell]

as I have briefly mentioned before I am of the opinon that your goverment, my goverment and most goverments of the world are nothing more the boards of directors for the banks and mega corporations that actually run this planet.

Much respect for those that choose a military career (my father was a WW2 vet, as were several uncles)
or have served in the past.

Its unfortunate the direction things are going at an alarming rate.

peace, pass it on

 

[BuckDaniels]

That's truly an overwhelming display of disrespect and poor character. Those people need to pull their heads out to their asses. Say, my employer doesn't discriminate, should my funeral be disrespected?!? F'n Aholes...

 

[delta one]

join the Patriot Guard Riders, I did.


BUT I don't think they should be banned at all, why? Freedom of speech. just like those who hang flags upside down and do other acts that are utterly disrespectful to our government and out military men and women.

Those who have served, are serving. or will serve, all believe in this country enough to die for it. They too believe in the freedom of speech and once we begin to douse that freedom for any reason their lives intentions and spirit are dishonored and even waited.
It is even more disrespectful to our heroes to ignore the constitution than it is to let them bare one more burden even in death.

But I think it is even better if those still alive and benefiting from freedom are willing to take that burden to protect the last honor and dignity of these soldiers and their families.

Patriot Guard Riders

 

[konarider94]

BUT I don't think they should be banned at all, why? Freedom of speech. just like those who hang flags upside down and do other acts that are utterly disrespectful to our government and out military men and women.

freedom of speech is one thing. this is entirely different. if you want to protest the war go to washington or your state capitol. you do realize military members give up some aspect of free speech right. you think james madison was thinking that people should be allowed to protest at a military members funeral. the world is different today than it was in 1789 and sometimes discretion has to be used. Thats what the supreme court is for, if they dont have the capacity to exercise discretion then what good are they. And dont even try to say if they start with this then what about protests in general, because thats just something for the spineless politicians to hide behind.

Thanks for being in the patriot guard but I think you should really think about the families of those involved and a little less about freedom of speech before you decide to say you agree with it. How is a parent supposed to explain to their young child that their other parent deserves to die and go to hell. And when should that ever be tolerated.[down] to you

FYI hanging a flag upside down is a symbol of distress

 

[vospertw]

>you think james madison was thinking that people should be allowed to protest at a military members funeral.

Quick answer "yes". I'm with Delta on this one. That's why Madison wrote "Congress shall make NO (emphasis mine) law... abridging the freedom of speech..." It's a slippery slope to let any person's opinion of what is appropriate - even the Supreme Court - curtail your freedom of speech. You never know when it might be YOUR speech that someone doesn't like.

I served 20 years in the Marines - Have I lost friends? Yes, both in peacetime and in combat. Would I be personally pissed if they were at the funeral? Damn straight. Do I think they should be banned? No way in hell.

There are other ways to address things like this that involve speech; any number of local ordinances could be established to mitigate the impact on the mourners - but you can't make a law to prevent it because you don't like what they say. Well, let me rephrase that... you shouldn't make a law to prevent it based on their speech. Our government runs roughshod over every part of the Constitution - including free speech - any chance they get, so I can't honestly say "you can't do it."

By the way, you make a good point about what you need to teach your kids. But... that's up to you as a parent - that's another slippery slope - letting the government decide what to teach them and what they should and should not hear. Morality has no place in law-making or you'll soon find yourself beholden to someone else's values - not yours.

 

[delta one]

you do realize military members give up some aspect of free speech right.

As former active duty enlisted yes I do

FYI hanging a flag upside down is a symbol of distress

And a common political statement in art and on clothing as well as anarchist or other symbols drawn on the flag.


It is their right to protest and be ignorant A-holes, it is my right to stand in the way.

Thats what the supreme court is for, if they dont have the capacity to exercise discretion then what good are they.  And dont even try to say if they start with this then what about protests in general, because thats just something for the spineless politicians to hide behind.   

You are right but our government continues to grant itself more power abolish more rights and forget about the people it is intended to protect. Should we really give up more rights? Give the gov more power? I am already greatly saddened by the level of power and invasion the government has adopted under the false veil of "the greater good". Full body scans and legal wire taps without court order along with many other atrocities are not what this country should be forced to endure (despite the political excuses that many hide behind saying the world is different now than it was a few hundred years ago). Public fear has lead to great atrocities as far as personal rights, an outcry for protection from a bunch of idiots should not blemish our rights as citizens, or even theirs.

And when should that ever be tolerated.

Never

Act against it now, why should we wait for the courts to make another law? Another provision? Use your current rights and stand for what you believe in, you already have the tools and the rights, don't sell one for any price, even if it's for the best intentions.

 

[SSgtBuell]

[up] For the 2%'ers (Americans that serve thier country). Can you believe that only 2% of United States population serves thier country. For being a Active Duty service member myself, I think thats ridicules. Better yet they are wanting to cut the USAF force this year by 15%. Next thing you know it "We need the Air Force O, we force shaped them all". [confused]

 

[delta one]

Got bit by force reduction myself, that's what I get for choosing older airframes to work on...

But that's ok, I'll get my degree and maybe go back as brass. That would be nice

 

[agfish18]

Gotta say I'm confused what anti-gay protesters are doing at military funerals??

many of them say that dead soldiers are God's way of punishing us. The protestors arent just "anti-gay" protestors... they are a church who believes a certain way. not too sure what way... just know that they are against soldiers and gays... I would have to agree with Konarider on this though, I would probably end up in jail if I were around any of these guys because simply put...I'd probably fuck 'em up

 

[tuneport67ss]

I think this whole issue is just a prime example about how panty wasted and liberal our damn country is getting. All these fucking liberals are ruining what the United States of America was based and founded around. I agree with the freedoms we are allowed to enjoy in this country, but I think the morals of people, politicians, and the government are going to shit. It is not a matter of if they are allowed to protest or not, it is an issue about what is morally right or wrong. If they want to protest soldier, the war, gays, etc. They can do what they like. They should however have enough respect for individuals allow them to go through this grieving process as peacefully as possible. This time is hard enough that the families do not need a bunch of ass hats making things worse. Go protest in downtown or somewhere else in the city, just not right in front of the grieving family. It is called decency and that is the problem for me. You say I can't tell you what you can and cant do because it violates your rights, well guess what your pussy faced immoral actions violate my right to a peaceful assembly. So for all you Westboro Babtist ass hats, "GO FUCK YOURSELF!". And quit being part of the problem in this country and try to find a way to use your legal resources to better this country and give these soldiers and their families a reason to be proud again.

There's my rant on the subject. I just think this damn country and our shitty ass government is too worried about who we offend and not worried enough with what's right and wrong.

This reminds me of the story I read recently about the college guys who were creating a scholarship fund for caucasion males. It stirred up all kinds of shit about racism. If it were for any other group were to do this it would be called equal rights and opportunity. The problem was the college an town try were doing it for, causacion males are the minority. So is it still racism or is it equal rights for the minority?

Sorry for the rant and all but I get all pissed off about these issues.

 

[crxtasy169]

Delta One +1 on the Patriot Guard my dad and his fellow PG members have run these assholes off at several funerals! To me this is one of the biggest disrespects that I have ever herd of! We might as well just fall back into the days of grave robbing! Anyone who serves has my respect whether I agree with the conflict or not. Thank you to all who have served no matter of your creed, color,gender, or race! Yes this government is out of control and it's time to do what any other employer would do, fire them all and wipe the slate clean! It should be considered a privilege to serve in our government not a silver spoon fed right. they are not teamsters they are elected officials and if they are going to bitch about the position they ran for then they need to shut the fuck up and get out! We sure as hell didn't make them run for that position. Sorry for the rant but it's like dealing with a bunch of little children, you either set them straight or they will run right over you!!!!!

 

[buelljek]

Tuneport,
In the Educational field you wouldnt believe all the crap we have to study so we dont offend some race. I hade to take lessons on which races I could make eye contact with, those I could address aloud in class, and what normal English words not to use because they could sound offensive.
Really!!!! This crap made me want to SCREAM!!! Yes, I am white, therfore sinner of sinner's. I have never made a racist comment or gesture toward anyone. The book I had to get for one of my classes was called
(White Privilege) Its the biggest bunch of BULL Ive ever had to read. Please tell me this White Privilege because it seems like a white person gets hosed more than any. I cant tell you how many jobs, scholarships, and grants I could not recieve because I was WHITE!!!
sorry for my rant....

As for the Freedom of Speech, It is completly fine untill your Freedom is oppositional towards somebody else's. Really, I hope these people that rant and rave at somebodys funeral feel good about what they are doing, and sleep well at night. <(you are the ones I will be praying for, God knows you need it the most)

 

[tuneport67ss]

^^Amen to that brother. ^^

 

[agfish18]

As for the Freedom of Speech, It is completly fine untill your Freedom is oppositional towards somebody else's.

I agree whole heartedly. They have set limitations to this, so you cant do things like yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater just for fun. It causes chaos, and can possibly cause death or serious injury due to trampling.

You can't say the word "bomb" on a plane because of the National Security threat. So what is the difference here? These people shouldnt be allowed to protest at funerals. The family members are already in a fragile state having had someone close to them die. If the government was at all concerned for the wellbeing of its citizens, it should do something to protect the lives of these protestors (keep them from doing it.) because I sure as hell would want to kill a muthaf****r that did that at a funeral I was attending. I am truly surprised that no one has wanted to go to jail to jack these guys up

 

[vospertw]

As for the Freedom of Speech, It is completly fine untill your Freedom is oppositional towards somebody else's.

What would be the point of having freedom of speech if you can't be in opposition to someone else? That would be the exact opposite of freedom of speech, and exactly the way totalitarian governments around the world treat their citizens.

I agree whole heartedly. They have set limitations to this, so you cant do things like yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater just for fun. It causes chaos, and can possibly cause death or serious injury due to trampling.

As for yelling "fire" in a crowded theater... that comes from one of the most embarrassing decisions ever involving freedom of speech (Schenck v. United States). The Constitution says NO LAW abridging free speech - there's no "except when some future judge thinks he needs to make an exception" clause. Justice Holmes was wrong - freedom of speech DOES protect a man yelling "fire" in a theater - if we valued property rights (don't get me started), the theater owner would have recourse against that same man for disrupting his business and injuring his customers without ever having to infringe on freedom of speech.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to be able to speak your mind, everyone else can too - even it YOU happen to think that it's wrong, morally or otherwise.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire (yeah, I know he probably didn't actually say it, but it's still a good quote)