Guys, we need to talk...

[lawdog]

I use a Palm Pilot running PocketLogger Software hooked up to a ZT2 Wideband. I download the runs to my PC using Palm Hotsync.

I then convert the files to .CSV format using PLViewer.

I then analyze my runs in WinLogView and make adjustments to my AFR using Ohio Sport Bike.

I then upload the new maps I created using OSB Comm and get a smile on my face after every ride.


Honestly using a wideband is the way to go. My bike runs 100% better then stock. Runs cooler, no miss, no stutter, and pulls like a freight train. I nicknamed it "The Beast"!

 

[theoctopus]

lawdog, sounds like you have a solid setup. Glad you agree about the WB.

To be honest, you'll have more parameters to adjust if you give up OSB and switch over to TunerPro. It opens up the whole ECM.

 

[Trill]

It has been a journey that is for sure. I started tuning before I realized my intake seals were leaking.. so I changed them out "MYSeLF" which was tons o' fun you know? anyways. There is one spot on my map that is still giving me trouble "sometimes" at a steady throttle about 1/8 @ 3k rpms it coughs at me! normally when cold though so I don't know..

I need one of them uber small laptops from wally world because the ancient thing I have now just sucks to put in the backpack and log, and the damn thing kept crashing when I would kill the bike before stopping the log!

I got so frustrated that I gave up last season.. Maybe new hardware and more patience is all I need.

So, I will consider this whole WB idea when I remove my headers for ceramic coating

 

[ridendude]

[up] Octopus. Well said.

 

[lawdog]

Octopus, So what changes can I make in Tunerpro that OSB cannot?

I played with the timing maps but the stock map gave me the best performance. I also have my exhaust valve servo turned off and O2 sensors turned off to run 13.5 AFR. Anything else I am missing?

 

[flyeboy]

I intend to modify the maps, and do what I can within the ECM without messing anything up beyond repair. For me, the whole idea of datalogging and such is more to learn my bike-what makes it purr so to speak. Of course I think that with experience comes the talent/ability to further tweak and perfect. Point is, I think most people on this forum like myself just want A) a nice looking/sounding bike and B) a dependable bike. I dont feel the need to know I have pulled every bit of power from my machine--I DO need to know it is healthy, maintained and safe. Many of the DIY projects posted on here allow the newbee (me) to get his feet wet in learning these incredible machines. Points to those with the experience to tweak each individual area of a fuel map to enhance whatever lacks in that part of the powerband. Just know that a post that seems irrelevant or lacks a certain focus to some might be paramount or useful to another. I for one, will continue to keep my machine running as well as my abiities allow--but I wont sacrafice one minute of joy owning it being burdend with the worry of an extra HP I might be missing. I figure with great guys like you all posting your knowledge, I will figure that extra HP out in time. Keep them posts comin!

 

[theoctopus]

lawdog, it just opens up the entire ECM. Whatever you want to modify is there. And it's free, so it's worth checking out. You can adjust column/row values (to enhance resolution on the xb fuel maps where 4 columns go unused), adjust RPM limits, so forth and so on. It's pretty neat.

 

[Stillonit]

my 2010 mostly stock and I like it that way. but you are right some parts of engine management system setup Sucks from the factory . the crazy off Idle problems the poor running condition at 4000 to 5000 rpm.So give me some time to massage the ecm. and work out the bugs in the systems and hopefully I can send you people this info so we can all have a properly tuned bike Stock or not.I hope not all years of these bike have the glitches in the system like my bike.. Some say take it to a Harley to fix it ...LOL... If it don't throw a code everything fine ....all bs!!!!! but luckily for us we have people with real passion for the xb models!! I plan on never selling it so I have time .....so let.s have a little ride and deal with the bikes a little at a time .I don't want to get burned out

 

[03Firebolt9R]

The good news is that you can fix all these problems YOURSELF for a very reasonable price! By investing in a moderately-priced tuning package, and bypassing that "cool" Carbon Fiber front fairing you've always wanted, you can treat your bike right, and rest assured she'll be in it for the long haul. A WB O2 controller with WB O2 sensor can run for as little as $150, brand new, on eBay.

Waiting for the "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE, for an additional $5 i will throw in a set Ginsu knives!!"

A bung to have welded into your front header can cost as little as $5 (not taking into account the $10 or so it will cost to have it installed).

Didnt you just say....

Erik and his team put a lot of thought into the engineering of our bikes

Just wondering why it didnt come with a WB O2 sensor.

Let's be honest...though there some huevo heads out there....most on this forum arent destroying their Buells because of a lack of data-logged tune. The XB motors are very adaptable and resilient.

And BTW, I happen to really like CF and I am not offended in any way. Just do what I did, sell the XB and get a CR. More than enough power without performance mods and the carbon in the world wont slow it down.

 

[theoctopus]

No no no, Ginsu knives are trash. There are much better ones out there.

The WB O2 isn't necessary for operation, that's why. A NB, once you've got the tune in place, works just fine for keeping the bike going. An LC-1 is more of an investment: you can use it to tune other engines once you've got things locked down on the first one.

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone's bikes are going to grenade on them, only that it's worth considering tuning to match all those performance mods (which may actually be costing you numbers, rather than gaining you any).

CF is good stuff, bud. I'm just saying a lot of people drop the cash on that, throw a big free flow exhaust and filter on their bike, and call it good. In reality, if a small portion of that had been spent on tuning the bike, all that gear would really be put to good use.

 

[RT Performance]

I tuned my 05 xb ecm spy and mega log.
there is no "free" tuner software for my 2009.
Also going to note EBR tunes not just with a wide band but a wide band installed just out side of the port.

sorry if i got pissy but i may have taken your first post wrong.

If you where saying don't forget to tune when you mess with the intake or exhaust i am good with that.


Saying data log is necessary to everyone is taking it a bit far these are production bikes with adaptive Ecm's drastic changes cam hurt stuff no doubt

 

[theoctopus]

Free tuning software for your 2009 does exist. I use it on my 2009. Regularly.

I'm not arguing how EBR tunes, only that any maps they develop in their location is specific to that environment. Of course they tune with the full range of tools available to them...

No worries. Everyone's allowed to be direct.

I'm really arguing that if people are going to drop a ton of money on cosmetic adjustments and performance uprades, why not spend a much smaller portion (and some measure of time) to really get the bike running right. The adaptive ECM only goes so far. They can't adjust for everything, as I'm sure you know.

 

[LeFox]

well, i'll get involved in this...against my better judgment

most of you have a point in there somewhere, but do not forget...if everyone does the same thing, this world would be boring and no real progress would be made.

fact is, when you buy a bike, that bike is yours and you can do with it what you want.

some are into tuning, engine-wise...
well, as mentioned about a thousand times on this forum, the best way to get the most performance out of you bike is to remap it with your setup. but all depends on your choice of filter, exhaust, etc...
keep in mind that no exhaust can do it all, meaning it can not give your the best torque & hp at the same time, so make a choice here hat is important to you.
another thing, it is possible that once your bought your setup, a new one may come and overpower yours.
=> enigne tuning is a pricy thing that does not stop.

other are into looks...
you get a setup you like, mostly tall also involves basic performance tunes because they do contribute to the looks & sound, but you are not interested in getting the most out of your engine.
same thing goes here, you buy something and several months later it is highly likely another thing comes along that you like more...

long story short, without one there is no two...
getting performance is testing, feedback and build/rebuilding. your need different players to get the technoligy moving in the right direction

and all tuners here will have to admit that 60% your choice for buell is because of looks

so go out, spend some money, but not all...do not forget to ride (safe) and enjoy life!

 

[Jon0341]

So true Lefox, I fought for this country so I could do just that; do anything I want that goes for my bike, people have different preferences, opinions and options. Also to make a statement on what you believe, everyone is entitled to their opinion. That’s why this site is great, it opens up a huge knowledge pool allowing us to share our knowledge, experiences and opinions! I am not that mechanically savvy and to add this is my first Buell. So I am learning a lot; taking this knowledge and forming my own opinion on what mods I want and deem essential. So to everyone; do what you want!

 

[CBi]

while staying on the subject of this thread, does anybody have any pictures of front o2 bungs welded into the front header?

I would like to spend more time tuning my bike, and dual WB02s is the optimum setup. I just want the front o2 install in a spot that looks presentable.

 

[ROJO]

LeFox...where have you been? Just lurking? I have been missing your insight.[up]

 

[ROJO]

sorry...not trying to jack the thread. This is some very good info. I kinda feel that it's your bike, tear it up if you want (mod it how you like). It is ones responsibility to NOT send your bike on to the next guy without disclosing everything that has been done to the bike. It then is that person responsibility to do his due diligence and ask the proper questions and do the research before accepting it.

If it's my bike though, I will do all proper tuning to go along with my performance mods. As for me for now, I am keeping my pipe stock, and keeping all my OEM parts just in case there is never another Buell made. I will then have something that might be a collectors item.

 

[RT Performance]

I printed and Read all 150 or whatever pages of ecm spy for my 05.
you can DESTROY an engine if you take to much fuel away or ad timing detonation is an engines biggest enemy no matter what castrol says.
I been fixing cars since i was 16 and ASE master auto tech since 1993.I still don't feel comfortable just putting little timing here pull some gas out here.
Why i prefer to let the pros do my work i think the elevation of Wisconsin and Michigan are plenty close.
the rest the ECm can learn

 

[xoptimizedrsx]

Nice stuff going on here.
RT once you get your data done at EBR fetch it and look at it. Dont send it to me. I dont need or want it.

use ecmread to fetch the data its free. use tunerpro to open every detail of the ecm.

I bet your going to see a 60/40 split on fuel 40%of the map will have less fuel. 60% more fuel. same thing for timing. less in most of the places for peek tq and while getting peek egt for HP/Tq matched to the fuel. should be about 1 to 3 hrs avg depending on how far its off. If its a long session the bike will need a cool down session breaks cause the fuel get hot in the frame and changes the burn rate. nothing you dont know as a master mech.


Next:

For those with 08 up bikes you have many rows of unused fuel values in tunerpro. You can rename these zero rpms and make use of them. This is stuff I have been doing for years. (not limited to 08 up it does all bikes).

Tuner pro is an extension from our old ecm tool way back before you even had timing and other maps and configuration pages. we use other tools then made the changes directly in the eeprom. Thats how we found what needed to be in the public eyes and ralf added those datas to the ecmspy. There was a program we used to convert this other programs data into a txt data after a while. This was so it was not so crazy always hand typing every cell. Those were the days..lol

we now are on the brink of ecmspy mono going public. It has even more than any tuning software. See the Q&A page on ecmspy.com it has everything you could ever want and need. It even has modes to input the wideband data to the ecm. which I have done for years now its just knowing how and where to changes the data to allow for such details. some programs are lacking because everything abd every bean was not spilled to them in worry they were using us and we would get pushed aside then bad mouthed. we were correct... now they have fallen behind with sub prime tuning. over priced and it wont work that way thats why the three leaders actually stopped doing it. that way has more misses than hits. It takes datalogs to match it to the bike. even if I did your bike on the dyno here in FL. you took it back north I had to have the person datalog for their area to match it correctly. the dyno and human eye cant match machine data and real world road data.


Octo: nice writing. Love it when A picture is all in perspective. Different fuel types burn different and even then they burn different at different temps and different altitudes. hence the funny running some people are seeing. fuel in the usa is different than other countries. IMO its like the epa inspections. You would not want them to pull your car/bike in and use a clunkers exhaust for the readout. Thats what your getting on a dyno tune to a different bike. Whats the condition of the engine? whats the compression and many other factors. I have said it before using and sharing maps is all good but its like shooting fish in a barrel. you will hit some and miss more. once you stack your self up with all the misses it takes months to fix it. I know dyno tunes on a setup dont share well overall. datalog and match your ecm to your bike, with you on it in your area and your climate. I have two maps a summer and a winter. they are totally different looking.

Xopti

Likes 100 AFV. wide bands make it faster and slightly more accurate but if you take the time it can be done with NB sensors. It's best done on front and rear though.

 

[xtremelow]

This is the stuff I stay away from, since I basically understoof about 10% of what xoptiixedrsx just said.

I know what AF, O2, Maps, timing and what not but in no way do I know how to apply them to make the best performance, guess that is why like RT said I leave it to the pros[up]