Had an '03XB9S, now have an '08 XB12Scg... what's different about them?

[punkrider99]

My 2003 XB9S finally died after nearly 60k miles. The engine started making a "whurring" sound and when I drained the oil I found lots of metal.

I found a very clean, low miles 2008 XB12Scg. I flew out to Vegas (from So Cal) to buy it and rode it home and I noticed that it rides quite a bit differently than my 9 did.

First, is there a list or document somewhere that outlines the major changes between model years? It seems like there's a significant break between the '07 and older bikes and the '08 and newer bikes... so what's the difference?

Does my '08 have idle control? I noticed that after starting it the revs hang kinda high for a sec before dropping down to the normal idle. My 9 never did this; it just started and idle at the same rpm all the time. Also when coming to a stop and clutching in the revs hang kinda high and then drop.

I noticed that my 12 really bogs down and feels like it's going to stall when taking off from a start. I read around online and it seems like it might have to do with the exhaust valve or maybe the breather setup? Some said it's "fixable" and some said just to get used to it. I really liked how my 9 rode and I really like the throttle response. Right now the 12 seems very laggy and boggy off idle. My 9 used to take throttle blips no problem and the 12 sounds like it just bogs.

My 9 had a Spec OPS muffler and a K&N filter and no other mods. I ran it on the stock ECU for 50k+ miles with no issues. It didn't run lean, it didn't knock, nothing. It ran fine. My 12 has the stock muffler on it now and it's waaaaay to quite. I do nothing but freeway driving and I need my bike to be loud (people usually hear me before they see me). I don't need more performance, just sound. Can I throw on another Spec OPS muffler on my 12 without having to worry about re-tuning or buying a $300 ECU from EBR just so I can run a muffler?

That's it for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions later. Looking forward to some replies.

Thanks,

Nate

 

[punkrider99]

Okay thought of some other stuff...

Has anyone on here ridden a normal Lightning as well as a cg? I'm noticing that the cg seems to ride quite a bit differently than my standard 9 did. I felt very very confident on my 9 and used to flick it from lane to lane and in between cars at 80 mph no problem. I jumped on my cg and it feels very different, especially at low speeds.

At low speeds it kinda feels like the bike wants to fall or lay over more easily. It also seems like the cg wants a lot more counter steering input than my standard 9 did. Has anyone else noticed this?

The cg also feels slightly less settled when it's laid over than my 9 did. The back tire feels kinda loose when my 9 felt rock solid. I should have checked my tired pressure before riding the bike home but I didn't and when I did finally check it I discovered that it only had 25 psi of pressure. Oops.

I bumped the pressure up to 40 psi and it seemed better but still not as tight as my old bike. Could it be the Pirelli tires? I always used Bridgestone BT021/016 tires on my old bike and they rode great (and had a great life span).

Are the cg's inherently less stable than a regular Lightning because they're lower and slightly shorter? The cg actually feels more nimble and more flickable but slightly less stable? Or is it just me?

 

[kbfnail]

I havent noticed on my 09. Handles like a champ!

 

[punkrider99]

Yeah, it still rides well... it just rides differently than my 9 did.

 

[EmptyChambers]

Can't speak for the engine since I've never ridden a 12, but was the guy a significantly different size than you? He may have adjusted the suspension to match, and I know the XB are setting sensitive.

 

[punkrider99]

Good point Empty. I did think of that and have been meaning to check the suspension settings. I'm a big dude and he was about 100 lbs lighter than I am.

When I first got my 9 the front end was way too soft and it nose dived under braking. My 12 doesn't dive at all and it feels pretty good but it may explain the loose feeling in the back end.

Thanks!

BTW, does anyone know if all 12 mufflers are the same for all years?

 

[punkrider99]

Been reading around and it seems like the stock ECU's on the later model 12's will allow for either an intake mod or an exhaust mod without any real need for tuning - but not both. Is this generally true?

 

[jriffe108]

Yes, 12 mufflers are all the same. 9 muffler will work minus the valve. If you have the factory Pirelli tire on rear, change it, they are terrible tires, greasy, slick, and slide every chance they get.

The 12 has more engine, more weight up front. Not much, but enough to stabilize the front while loosening the rear. Compensate by adjusting the suspension for your weight, riding position, and style.

Bog is from exhaust valve, very sensitive of idle, great 1500-2800, decent high end. You need to replace with a hawk, spec ops, or race muffler if you can find one. Also, breather re-route works wonders on off idle bog and general low rpm cruise.

 

[jriffe108]

I have race muffler, lightly modded airbox, k&n on factory tune. Runs great in cooler weather. Tried richening it up and different maps with no appreciable changes. Read your plugs after any change to ensure you don't run too lean.

Idle is electronically controlled through the IAC unit. It will high idle on cold start and settle down as the enrichment leans and engine warms up.

How many miles?

 

[d_adams]

Been reading around and it seems like the stock ECU's on the later model 12's will allow for either an intake mod or an exhaust mod without any real need for tuning - but not both. Is this generally true?

I'd say no to that. Tuning is HIGHLY recommended, regardless of the year. DDFI-3 will compensate some, but not what it really needs. It does global adjustments, not rpm specific to load. Use tunerpro RT for tuning if you're comfortable doing so.

As far as mods to the exhaust goes, it all depends on what your wallet allows for. There are some pretty nice pipes out there on the market, some will make better power than others but cost a little more. Some look like works of art and some are not.

 

[chelch]

My 2008 scg also sounds/feels like it is going to stall taking off in first. Hoping my new hawk muffler cures that.

FYI....randy told me that with a hawk and KN filter no remap needed

 

[Rhino1]

Chelch et all, if your 12 feels like its going to die off the line, something isn't kosher. Try doing a TPS reset. My '09 can almost take off on its own off the line (with no throttle input), and certainly accelerates smoothly off the line (well, smooth for a Buell.. ).

And regarding the weird handling, underinflated tires will certainly do that the handling. Overinflating brings its own set of quriks (technically, 40 isn't over inflated, but I can tell you from experience that you'll feel a lot better off with about 36 in the front and 34-36 in the rear on the street). And definitely set your suspension up for your own weight and riding style--sounds like your Scg is set up too soft if it was set up for a rider that weighed 100lbs less than you. With an Scg, there isn't a whole lot of room to play with (limited suspension travel), so make sure its close for your weight. My .02

They're great bikes, btw. [up]

 

[punkrider99]

If you have the factory Pirelli tire on rear, change it, they are terrible tires, greasy, slick, and slide every chance they get.

Yup, that's what's on there. It has these big sipes/thread paths on the side and it's almost as if I can feel every single one of them slapping the ground when I lay the bike over. I thought it might have been the tire but wasn't sure.

Bog is from exhaust valve, very sensitive of idle, great 1500-2800, decent high end. You need to replace with a hawk, spec ops, or race muffler if you can find one. Also, breather re-route works wonders on off idle bog and general low rpm cruise

Thinking of going with a Spec OPS. Had one on my 9 and I loved it.

I have race muffler, lightly modded airbox, k&n on factory tune. Runs great in cooler weather. Tried richening it up and different maps with no appreciable changes. Read your plugs after any change to ensure you don't run too lean.

Good to know. Like I said before, I had a Sped OPS pipe, K&N Filter, stock air box and stock ECU on my 9 and it ran fine with absolutely no issues.

Idle is electronically controlled through the IAC unit. It will high idle on cold start and settle down as the enrichment leans and engine warms up.

I figured it was because of the way it was behaving. What year did the IAC start showing up? I kinda like it and I kinda don't. I'm just so used to my old bike so it'll take a little while to get used to.

How many miles?

Turned 7k on my way home from Vegas.

My 2008 scg also sounds/feels like it is going to stall taking off in first. Hoping my new hawk muffler cures that.

FYI....randy told me that with a hawk and KN filter no remap needed

FWIW I've read more than a few times that the '08 and newer bikes feel like they're going to stall during take off in first so you and I aren't the only ones noticing this. Also good to know about the Hawk/K&N combo not needing tuning.

And regarding the weird handling, underinflated tires will certainly do that the handling.  Overinflating brings its own set of quriks (technically, 40 isn't over inflated, but I can tell you from experience that you'll feel a lot better off with about 36 in the front and 34-36 in the rear on the street).  And definitely set your suspension up for your own weight and riding style--sounds like your Scg is set up too soft if it was set up for a rider that weighed 100lbs less than you.

After putting almost 60k freeway miles on my 9 I think I've got my tire pressure preference figured out. 40 front and rear always felt the best to me. If with the recommended 36 psi in the rear tire it always felt way too soft. Unfortunately for a rider of my size my only real suspension option is to max everything out (max compression, max rebound, and max pre-load). Either way, I'm sure it'll get better once I actually take the time to adjust it.

 

[jriffe108]

IAC control began in with 2008 model, I like it, but I also let my bike warm up for a few minutes before riding away. I run NGK iridiums and on a cold start, If I dont let her idle for at least 3 minutes, she bogs big time on take off.

One thing to look for is leaking rocker cover gaskets, your bike may have already had them replaced, if not, keep an eye on the rear gasket. If it starts leaking, it'll wipe out your fan.

I'm a big boy as well, 6' 250, I have settings pretty stiff and still notice the ass is light.

With the Pirelli rear, I would drift when entering a turn on the brakes, or coasting, off the throttle. Under controlled throttle, I could maintain a little stick but when transferring weight to rear and hard throttle, tire would break loose every time. Fun for showing off and building skills, but unpredictable and dangerous at the same time. Tire got worse as the miles and age increased, seemed to just get stiffer with every ride. Ambient temps didnt matter, 45 degrees or 105 degrees, I'll never pay money for a Pirelli tire for anything, ever.
Here's my vote for Michelin pilot power 2ct, very sticky, great wear so far, balanced beautiful. Always had good luck with Michs in the past on previous bikes.

 

[Rhino1]

Sorry, not trying to tell you what's best for you--just relaying my experience (you asked for input). I'm a bigger guy myself (5'11", 235 - 240) and have an Scg (well, it's got different suspension now, but it was an Scg ). And I ride it pretty hard.

BTW, the Bridgestone BT016's are great tires and changing over to them may go along way towards restoring your confidence...

I'm in SoCal for the summer, and ride up Glendora mountain Road and Angeles Crest Highway at--pm me if you ever want to go for a ride [up]

 

[buelladdicted]

G.M.R. is all time!Avoid weekends if you can,lots of bicycles and sports cars who dont know what the center line is for.Hope to see you around.

 

[Rhino1]

Yup. Been doing it weekday mornings...

Being assigned to Southern California for the next couple months kinda sucks for me, but the roads are phenomenal!

 

[punkrider99]

Sorry, not trying to tell you what's best for you--just relaying my experience (you asked for input).

Nah, I know. No worries. I appreciate the input. I'm 5'10" pushing 300lbs and it really seems like this bike wasn't really meant for someone built like me. It's been suggested a few times that I have my forks springed for my weight but I just keep the pre-load high and go with it. Re-springing a fork is pricey and I'm a cheap SOB.

I live right off the Ortega Highway if you're ever down in south OC.

Where are you "assigned"? You military?

 

[Rhino1]

No, its civilian stuff

It might be fun to organize a local ride with some other Buellers--Ortega is a nice highway and not too far for those of us closer to LA.

 

[punkrider99]

Ortega is a nice highway and not too far for those of us closer to LA.

I was gunna say the same thing about GMR and ACH for us OC folks. LOL. Maybe we meet somewhere in the middle?