Harley leaving Milwaukee!!!

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I believe in getting ahead in life, but what makes it right is when one pulls others up with them. Harley has made its name on american made & hope they never change that, but in the cost department,have there CEO's and upper management taken the same cuts as the workers they are getting ready to displace? The American way has been to keep paying upper company people at the cost of the ones that actualy make the product. The next problem is how those employees feel and ultimatly perform there jobs,tring to have pride, keep doing a good job & keep quality high. Many companys like Nissan,Hyundai,& Toyota have come here to build their vehicles stating Americans are productive. I don't know all the details of Harley wanting to jump states,but know that there actions will have consiqences & may not serve their best intrests in the end. Closing Buell has caused many to jump from their brand. Think before act! Thanks for readin.
 
^That's the thing, they make their money off their reputation of being American made, having American values.
 
They really make their money off merchandise not motorcycles. People buy into the lifestyle of Harley Davidson. A biker is a mindset not a lifestyle. Most who buy HD are not bikers. If someone tells you they have a Harley do you see them as a biker? Do they fly colors or are they just dressed in pirate gear? There's a big difference.

60 to 70 percent of their revenue comes from shirts not bikes and the percentage of merchandise buyers that are bike owners is probably less than 40%.

I'd be willing to bet that a whole lot of people would still buy an HD made overseas because of the perceptions that they are "Bikers" not because they really are.
 
They really make their money off merchandise not motorcycles. People buy into the lifestyle of Harley Davidson. A biker is a mindset not a lifestyle. Most who buy HD are not bikers. If someone tells you they have a Harley do you see them as a biker? Do they fly colors or are they just dressed in pirate gear? There's a big difference.

60 to 70 percent of their revenue comes from shirts not bikes and the percentage of merchandise buyers that are bike owners is probably less than 40%.

I'd be willing to bet that a whole lot of people would still buy an HD made overseas because of the perceptions that they are "Bikers" not because they really are.
I've said it for a long time, HD doesn't sell motorcycles, they sell an image, and bikes are part of the image.

On the unions, I've heard a lot of people bitch about how unions are bad, unions are greedy, but no one ******* about the top brass that sinks the company and then gets a multi-million severance package when they resign.

I'm union and I make $25.42 an hour. That's $52,800/year. There are production people who make more with incentive pay, but they work their ***** off for it.
 
I'm union and I make $25.42 an hour. That's $52,800/year. There are production people who make more with incentive pay, but they work their ***** off for it.
How many more dollars does per hour does it cost for your pension? And how about your medical, dental and vision? Another $15 or more I would imagine. Plus all the sick time, vacation and personal days your company must put money aside for. Total cost per hour is closer to $50 or $55 for your employer. Makes it hard to be competitive.
 
alfa.... obviously i am union, too. and my company is about 1/2 and union/ half non. the guys that are non actually make more per hour and get more vacation days than us. the big difference between us is the job security. and all that means is that your time with the company counts for something when a layoff or job elimination comes. whereas if you are non union, it doesnt matter a lick; 28 years with a company and they can ax you without blinking.
there is ALOT of misconceptions out there about unions and how it works. propaganda as i call it....
 
oh, and they can fire us every bit as fast as non union. like i said, alot of misunderstanding out there about unions.
 
I do have a lot of union knowledge too. My father retired from the airlines after 30 years and was union. My best friend is a police officer here in San Diego with 29 years under his belt. I worked for the city and was in a union for 5 years while going to college. If you're in a union it's great for you. If your a business owner not so much. Our city lost over a billion dollars when the local construction union fought with Gaylord Hotels trying to force them to hire only local and only union workers. Gaylord balked since they could prove that there was no way the city could provide that many bodies. When the union said OK but even if you outsource from Orange and L.A. County and if you use non union workers, they have to pay union dues. Well Gaylord said see you!

Having said all this I don't have an issue with private sector company unions as long as they can compete and pay their workers and make a profit for the shareholders. If they can't then they will do what they can to survive. My dad lost all his medical benefits through a bankruptcy and only has Medicare now. His pensions were well invested so he's fine there.

My biggest gripe is with public agencies and their pensions and unions. My state is billions in debt and services are being cut and the pensions are guaranteed by tax dollars. No matter what happens the tax payers will have to pay for benefits that we don't enjoy. If the services are there and the tax dollars are reasonable fine, but when it's mismanaged the laws should be repealed and the contracts broken and renegotiated through bankruptcy just like the private sector.
 
That factory in China that makes the rubber dinosaurs probably has a better R&D department, anyway. Maybe they can turn things around.
 
The biggest reason businesses leave the US is taxes. The government taxes business so much it makes financial sense for them to leave the country and have things shipped here at the same or lesser cost for them and us as consumers.

First and foremost businesses (large, publicly traded which is 98% of what is being described here) do not really answer to the consumer, they answer to their owners, the shareholders. Without products we buy and approve of they answer to the shareholders who let it be known they aren't happy by selling their stock and causing their value to decline.

If a CEO makes the company more profitable through decisions they make then they most certainly deserve the large salaries and bonuses they receive when the shareholders are receiving a greater return on their investment. The scumbags that cook the books and cause these companies to collapse have given a black eye to the ones that are doing their job and doing it well.

As far as unions, their time and place in this country have come and gone, period. It's a racket and it disgusts me, I get to deal with it at work. You do not deserve a job, you're not owed a job, and just because you've been with a company longer does not mean that during a layoff you should retain yours if a guy thats been there 6 months to your 6 years is more productive. In general Unions cause inflation wherever they are prevalent. Look at the cost of living where unions a re prevalent vs the cost of living where they are not. But keep demanding more, keep costs rising and keep collectively bargaining yourselves out of a job. It's amazing those non union auto plants in the south make products that are just as good and reliable as the union produced vehicles. The buildings that non union contractors magically build don't collapse every day, they're just built for fewer dollars. All union means is you're not strong enough or good enough to negotiate your own way through life anymore. Unions served a great purpose in this country at one point in time, they did their job well and should know when to bow out before the companies you extort are completely destroyed.

As for Harley, I like em, would buy one if I felt like it. Would be even easier if they were built less expensively in Mississippi or Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, etc.
 
The buildings that non union contractors magically build don't collapse every day, they're just built for fewer dollars.
Well said! I built custom homes in AZ where it is a right to work state and they where better carpenters and builders than I had in California where the union pushed me to hire them all the time.
 
The biggest reason businesses leave the US is taxes.
NAFTA is the real reason....
North America is being systematically dismantled..
the banker bailout $$$ were sent overseas..
the next collapse will be commercial realestate...
the empire is crumbling as they have planned it....
knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss..

apoligies for thread hijack
[smirk]
 
As far as Union around me it had it's ups an downs based upon the company. I am non-union and make better money than most shops around me and I also have better job security. Along with this I have zero fear if losing my job with the economy as it is, my shop is actually hiring and just this year we have brought in 75 new jobs to a 425 man shop, also we are hiring another 90 over the next 3 years for some new job we are doing.

Any how union or not some times it is just up to the top dogs to see how a business is run.

In the face of Harley they need to just look at the top end and make changes there as IMO that is where the problems lie.
 
also have better job security. Along with this I have zero fear if losing my job with the economy as it is,
Explain that please. That is what the unions preach, better job security and zero fear of losing their jobs. If you are an non union shop or business tell the others here how and why you have competed and prevailed. I know that the non union workers who built my sub divisions were as good if not better than the guys who worked for me in California. I made more money and my workers were paid a just wage. Remember, I put up several hundreds thousand dollars of my own funds to build a few custom houses, I put up the risk, not the guys I hired.( Not directed at Xtreme, just giving background, want his input)
 
^He just shows them our epic picture thread and it's instant job security.
thats hi-larious!
:D

being that as neighbours we share much more then just a border.
hows aboot a quick economics info session...

 
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