Stalling issue immediately after starting

[snrusnak]

Someone on another forum thinks it's the intake seals, as when the bike is cold (like this morning) it runs perfect, but once warm it coughs sometimes. He said he thinks that the seals are getting distorted from the heat and leaking. Makes sense....he recommended a certain brand of part (sounded like somebodies name or something) so I may try that as well...

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever figure out how to tune without someone showing me. I've tried screwing around with ecmspy but always stop from fear of damaging the ecm. I just don't follow everything I'm reading from the threads I've searched.

 

[Paniller]

Hey, do yourself a favor and pick up some seafoam from Walmart, autozone, or wherever. Add about an ounce or so for every gallon of fuel, to your fuel. I put about a double shot worth into half a tank.

I've been chasing problems just like yours since I purchased my bike. It'd always stall the first startup, would cough and choke at low rpms, etc. Especially until warmed up. I tried a million and one things, everything made it better temporarily, but it always felt like putting bandaids on an unknown problem.

The seafoam made it like a new bike. Now instead of restarting it twice every time (embarrassing), it starts right up. It used to struggle to hold 1000rpm, sometimes coughing a little. Now it's 1500rpm for 30 seconds, then 1000rpms steady...just like cars and bikes are programmed to do at warmup. No more babying the throttle and clutch until it warms up to prevent bogging.

I also suspect my days of 35-40mpg max are gone. The thing is smooth as a baby's ass, and it feels like less resistance. I find I'm always a gear higher than I used to be, and it's still smoother at those low rpms with no hesitation.

So, give that a shot. It can't hurt anything and only costs a few bucks for a little white can. Maybe we just got bikes that ran dirty and were crapped up with carbon deposits and clogged injectors, and didn't know any better because we never rode one new.

 

[snrusnak]

Thanks for the tip, I have used seafoam in my cars, and after the smoke show is over they always run smoother lol. I'll pick a bottle up this weekend. Did you only add it to the fuel, or did you also add it through any other methods as well? For example I would run it through vacuum lines on my cars, and sometimes use it in the oil about 100 miles before oil change.

Just to note, my bike never idles up high at first start like a car does, is it really supposed to(I'd think so). Does everyones do this?

 

[Paniller]

I didn't run it through the vacuum lines or anything. I figured I'd try 2 shots in 2 gallons first, see how that goes. It went well, I think. No smoke though, that's only more concentrated through the vacuum lines I hear.

A week before, I added a shot or two to my oil before an oil change. I was hesitant, so only put it in, let the bike idle for 3-4 minutes, then changed the oil. No notable changes from that.

I'd think the bike is supposed to idle high to warm up, similar to a choke. I see parameters in the ECM Spy that hint that it does. Cold start enrichment and a few others, if I recall.

There's a thread about seafoam active right now, seems fairly popular. Not everyone uses it, but some swear by it. Probably not needed unless the bike sits for a while or in the winter, like ours may have before we bought it.

I try not to recommend anything that costs money without being 100% certain, but Seafoam's cheap enough to be worth a try. I'm trying to convince myself that it's just 90% placebo effect, but placebo effect can't explain why my bike now idles first shot when it never did before.

 

[snrusnak]

Yeah I've used seafoam in the fuel, vacuum lines, and oil for hundreds of thousands of miles in my cars, from time to time, and they always idle smoother and seem to run better. I'll give it a shot this weekend if I get a chance, thanks for the heads up.

 

[jimijeans]

Snrusnak, as long as you use the seafoam properly it works well. I keep it handy here at the shop for just such cleaning out of injectors and furl lines. Go esy on it for a bike Engine and small tank. If you want to check the intake seals While (cold) you will have to spray up into the outside intake area with brake cleaner. If it idles up faster it's leaking. It doesn't hurt to replace the seals just make sure to try all possible before that.
They aren't really hard to change just time consuming. Some dry Glide to install those works to keep them from sliding around. I use 110 Octane to keep my buells fuel system clean and yes here and there Seafoam as well.Small Steps you'll get there.The Stock intake seals work good but Some Aftermarkets are better. Check out Revolution performance, and Jims there are others as well.*Jimi

 

[snrusnak]

Thanks. Just another thing to talk about, someone told me running a higher octane than needed causes carbon buildup...is that true?

 

[tricguy007]

Mine did the same thing installed new intake gaskets run like a dream

 

[snrusnak]

Thanks for the input. I plan on replacing them soon.

 

[jimijeans]

I've never had a problem with high Octane you can't stop Carbon buildup no matter how much you do except to remove the Jugs and Polish the Piston tops here and there. Any OR Most Vehicles will run just as well on Premium Pump Fuel! All Vehicles build up some sort of Carbon w/miles on them, good tune ups and Regular Maintenance helps to keep all vehicles running .
I've been using High Octane for over 30+years in Pro Race bikes and Drag Cars as well, and never hurt any Engine or had any problems, Except when I put it on for going out at a bike night or line Dancing had to Switch it was making me Ride and dance too fast.Ride Safe! Heh! *Jimi

 

[snrusnak]

I'd never heard of higher octane causing carbon buildup either, but this guy said it does....? I haven't had any issues with my vehicles running high octane, however they require it. His point was if it's designed to run on 87 then running 93 would cause carbon buildup.

 

[jimijeans]

Yes in the Future the lower compression Engines will run easily on 85 octane fuel. (Any fuel) will build up Carbon in a Engine with 185 degrees or higher temperatures thats just what Fuel does. Doesn't matter what fuel/ spark plugs and the like. When we drive it Will build up carbon Deposits due to additives and just heat alone. Even if you use the Exact [Pump Fuel] all the Vehicles lifetime. When mankind stops Streaching out the parts Cheap pistons and other parts.
Don't let the Word Cerramic parts fool you. Especially the Fuels are full of additives. If all Vehicles used a better grade of Fuels we can see a lower Deposits buildup of carbon as long as the Engine is Designed for it. With so many Fuel Stations and Different this works better and so on all lies to sell fuels.
Now if you are using LP fuel you will have a Stinky BUT Clean as it can be ON the inside Engine. The pistons are so clean they will look like brand new.Only using LP/fuel OR Propane you wonder why we aren't using it on ALL Buses & Large work trucks and so on. No bad Additives to Streach it. OR build up carbon, in Propane just a clean Burning Fuel. Dangerous as all get out but works well Even in Traffic.
Well we could go on forever about Fuels and Carbon and such.You'll find most Engines will work better with higher octane . My Aunt has a 1998 Lumnia 3.1 V6 & won't let no one touch it anymore but me.NOW with only at fill up the reQuired fuel and regular 10/40 oil never got more than 16 city and 22highway. At 32,489miles it overheated and dang near blew up! Bent 3 push rods bent 2valves Cracked a piston. Pulled it out Remaned it to me the way all Engines should be. Mostly Stock parts back in.Ported and polished all intake areas.Reused the heads. The Carbon was frikin !?
Put all back together. let it sit for 2 days put in fluids fired it up. Run Semi Synthetic and mix 1/4 cup of 110 with 87oct. per fill up only. Dam 33.3 Highway 19 to 21 city car has over 118,000miles on it now this was done over 7years ago. She loves that friggin car. If you know a Cure for the Brake pushing 77year old aunts let me know.*Jimi

 

[snrusnak]

wow, no offense, but I got half way through trying to read that paragraph(if you'd call it that?) and gave up lol.

on a side note, the bikes been running better (it is COLD out, well, cold for florida haha). This last few days it's been doing the stalling after startup again. I'm sure if I do the TPS reset again it'll be good for a few weeks. Forks come off in the following weeks to be rebuilt, I'll be doing some painting/powdercoating, and hopefully fitting the larger oil cooler, replacing intake seals, jet hot coating headers, and doing something with the muffler and intake. A few months hopefully and it'll be all good

 

[devonbiker]

So what was the outcome of this guys problem? Hate it when a thread is left open with no outcome..

 

[gbalias]

Also, try disabling the checkbox that uses O2 closed loop feedback at startup. O2 sensors aren't accurate until they're warm, it probably shouldn't be using that. With that alone, it may stall once or twice, but then stay idling. No struggling and fluctuations.

the ecm doesnt enable the O2 until a certain temp.