04 XB12R- 64K Electrical Issue

[tukkayak]

Good Morning Buellers!

I am new to this forum, but have stalked this place for years. I have a new to me - 04 XB12R project that was not taken care of prior to my ownership. I have poured through the wealth of information on this forum. Thank you for everyone who has shared to make this a Fantastic place to learn and engage. This is my 2nd Buell which I bought it as a project and have it running VERY strong.

Mods I am aware of:
Xenoon bulbs
Fender Delete- turn signals integrated into the brake/tail light bulb assembly
Jaradine Can
K&N Air Filter
New Tune based on the Can from BuellTooth

What I have done:
New tune
TPS reset
Replaced plugs
Checked Spark Plug Wires
Cleaned tested and checked VR harness- 1/2 not functioning
Tested Stator- strong output - no shorts to ground
Cleaned, checked and sealed all of my grounds.
Ran an extra ground from the front triple clamp to the back battery ground.
Cleaned and grounded the frame to engine strap/ground back to battery ground.

The bike runs fantastic so the shorted lights concern may be somewhere else. The cluster is cracked on top. The cluster did not function when I bought it. After I cleaned the triple clamp ground, it ran the diagnostic one time, then quit (no lights, no cycling, no tach or speedo). Brake lights work. Xenon headlights mod works although one pack had failed- new ballast on order (ES-0511).

I have the manual - and am able to read schematics although I am not an engineer.

Symptoms:
Turn Signals on both sides front and back show continuity to ground- I am testing from both front and rear harnesses
Gauges do not function - as described above
Voltage Regulator is dead on one side-

Questions-
Any suggestions where I can look for the short in the lighting circuit prior to me pulling the harness completely out for a total inspection?
Can someone provide ma an autozone or carquest part number for a voltage regulator? I saw in a post at one time, but am not able to re-locate it.

Thanks in advance for any support!

 

[34nineteen]

Good Morning Buellers!

I am new to this forum, but have stocked this place for years. I have a new to me - 04 XB12R project that was not taken care of prior to my ownership. I have poured through the wealth of information on this forum. Thank you for everyone who has shared to make this a Fantastic place to learn and engage. This is my 2nd Buell which I bought it as a project and have it running VERY strong.

Mods I am aware of:
Xenoon bulbs
Fender Delete- turn signals integrated into the brake/tail light bulb assembly
Jaradine Can
K&N Air Filter
New Tune based on the Can from BuellTooth

What I have done:
New tune
TPS reset
Replaced plugs
Checked Spark Plug Wires
Cleaned tested and checked VR harness- 1/2 not functioning
Tested Stator- strong output - no shorts to ground
Cleaned, checked and sealed all of my grounds.
Ran an extra ground from the front triple clamp to the back battery ground.
Cleaned and grounded the frame to engine strap/ground back to battery ground.

The bike runs fantastic so the shorted lights concern may be somewhere else. The cluster is cracked on top. The cluster did not function when I bought it. After I cleaned the triple clamp ground, it ran the diagnostic one time, then quit (no lights, no cycling, no tach or speedo). Brake lights work. Xenon headlights mod works although one pack had failed- new ballast on order (ES-0511).

I have the manual - and am able to read schematics although I am not an engineer.

Symptoms:
Turn Signals on both sides front and back show continuity to ground- I am testing from both front and rear harnesses
Gauges do not function - as described above
Voltage Regulator is dead on one side-

Questions-
Any suggestions where I can look for the short in the lighting circuit prior to me pulling the harness completely out for a total inspection?
Can someone provide ma an autozone or carquest part number for a voltage regulator? I saw in a post at one time, but am not able to re-locate it.

Thanks in advance for any support!

Have you downloaded the electrical diagnostics book and checked to see if you are getting power (and how much) and ground to the cluster? The wiring diagram is in there.

 

[tukkayak]

Yes - power is to the cluster.

The schematic shows power to be #2 pin red wire.

 

[34nineteen]

Yes - power is to the cluster.

The schematic shows power to be #2 pin red wire.

How about ground?

How much voltage?

Is it consistent or intermittant?

 

[tukkayak]

12.2 Volts consistent power.
I added a jump from the gauge ground to the triple clamp ground and the gauges cycled when unplugged then plugged back in, but nothing further. I unplugged, then replugged it in- each time it was plugged back in, the tach and speedometer cycled.

 

[tukkayak]

This makes me think it is still a ground issue, but have no idea where to go from here. Keep in mind, it has 64k miles on the bike. Lots of area for frayed wires. I have all of the looms in front exposed, and am looking for problem areas.

 

[34nineteen]

This makes me think it is still a ground issue, but have no idea where to go from here. Keep in mind, it has 64k miles on the bike. Lots of area for frayed wires. I have all of the looms in front exposed, and am looking for problem areas.

Do a search for "Lunaticfringe ground" or something along those lines on here. He laid out a series of different ground points to check, and I think it was more Firebolt specific.

I think you are on the right path. I would following its path physically (and via the wiring diagram) back to the battery. I'd first verify that the ground wire is actually ground, then start backprobing and doing the wiggle test on the harness. It may be easier to do with a test light rather than a DVOM.

I've never owned a Firebolt, but I seem to recall stories of the harnesses on them getting pinched around the frame head. I could be wrong, but it cant hurt to check. Good luck!

 

[tukkayak]

Thank you!!! I'll do as you suggest- I think I may have already read that thread. Went for a ride today, came back with an afv at 62.7. I now have more problems to look into.

 

[Rays]

I am not clear on all of the actual symptoms here?

Let's take this as three different problems for now (that may end up being incorrect but it sometimes helps to focus the diagnosis.

1. Instrument cluster not working.
Pin #2 is effectively directly connected to the battery (via the Keyswitch fuse & J Fuse by passing the ignition switch) and is the back-up power that keeps the tripmeters 'alive' when the main power on pin# 12 (marked 'Ignition') is removed when the ignition switch is turned off.
It is normal for the gauges to sweep when the backup power is interrupted (by the +ve or -ve side). If the gauges don't sweep by the plugging/unplugging with your temporary ground removed then that is one definite issue to correct.
Make sure that you have continuity (zero ohms or close to it) from pin#13 to the battery negative terminal - once that is confirmed you need to check that you have +12 v on pin#12 with the ignition key in the ON position. This is provided via the Accessory fuse.

2. The VR is 'dead on one side'.
I assume that is referring to no DC charging output? The VR on these early XB's has a 3-phase AC input and a +12v DC output.
The manual has a good guide to testing the Stator with both resistance and voltage checks and I am assuming that you have done that and are measuring no increase in the battery DC voltage with the engine running?
Note that if you are measuring the DC output of the VR with the output unplugged at the '77' connector or the 30A 'J' fuse blown/removed then you will not get a valid reading - the VR has to be connected to the battery.
The '77' connector is a known failure point on the pre '08 XB's and many VRs have been been binned needlessly so make sure the '77 connector is clean and has nice tight female sockets. Once they are confirmed clean and tight then dielectric grease will help keep water away. Don't use it on a loose connection without correcting that as it is by definition an insulator so may well make things worse.
If all is good then you will need a genuine replacement Buell regulator or one of the after-market units such as made by SHINDENGEN.

3.Turn Signals on both sides front and back show continuity to ground.
Can you please explain this a little more? When you say 'continuity to ground' are you meaning zero ohms or a low resistance? If you are using a multimeter to check resistance that can be very confusing because of the low resistance of the bulbs. The Left & Right blinker circuits are effectively two separate circuits that are switched to the blinker relay via the blinker switch so a dead short on both circuits at the same time would be unusual. If you are definitely chasing a dead short on both circuits then I would disconnect all of the blinkers as a first step. The most likely place to introduce a problem on both circuits is the fender delete - something that I have often seen done with little attention to electrical reliability so the previous owner may have left you a mis-wire there?
What is the actual issue with the blinkers that prompted the continuity measurement?

Ray

 

[user_deleted]

hey ray: great to see you back here with yet another of your outstanding electrical diagnostic pieces. your brilliance in this arena never ceases to amaze me plus directions and suggestions easy to follow.

Any suggestions where I can look for the short in the lighting circuit prior to me pulling the harness completely out for a total inspection?
Can someone provide ma an autozone or carquest part number for a voltage regulator? I saw in a post at one time, but am not able to re-locate it.


1-check the area of the main harness where it wraps around the steering neck seeing as how you already have ripped into that area. there is a dark brown single wire that controls positive feed to the signal circuit and is known source of problems due to chafing and shorting out.
2-just for the hell of it have you tried a good known new flasher? see pic. factory part # is Y0621.MD----suffix B4S
reasonably priced, infinite amount in system, and if it is acting up can make diagnostics a nightmare.
3-the CRACK you speak of in the gauge cluster leads me to believe that it MAY HAVE an internal problem such as a cracked circuit board rendering it useless. Ray will know but to me that's a tell-tale sign of a potential bad unit.
4-many have tried to duplicate/replicate/improvise for the factory 3-phase VR thru the years. IMO a waste of time and energy. the 2003-2007 VR same for all XB models. good used ones with warranty on evilbay....a few new ones still in the system...i keep new and used ones in stock....Rick's electrics also has excellent new for around $150.

 

[tukkayak]

Ray,

Thank you for your response! So greatly appreciated. I will follow your guidance on the cluster wiring.

The VR test I did- I pulled the Voltage Regulator off the bike. Tested continuity with Positive on the feed from stator to each DC output pin which read 39-40- diode setting. Then reversed polarity and repeated with a 0 reading. The positive feed tested properly, when repeated on the negative side, a 0 reading was provided. I though that this test should repeat the 39-40 reading on both positive and negative side of the VR, and when reversing current, it should return a 0 as the diodes are only allowing current one direction. Based on that, I thought the VR was failing. That said, I am getting a voltage reading from 13.4-14.5 with VR hooked up and bike running. I am scratching my head on this.

The turn signals- I have disconnected the main harness at both ends and am testing (continuity to ground) each pin from the front and rear of the main harness to ground. I would expect this not to show continuity as the harness is disconnected from the lights and switches. UNLESS- there is another circuit I am missing. I would expect a 0 reading as it should be just a wire from front to back that I'm testing. Maybe I am reading my wiring schematic wrong.

Again- Ray- Thank you! I was busy painting body parts and did not check the posts yesterday. Cheers from Austin!

 

[tukkayak]

Lunaticfringe, I have read SO many of your posts trying to wrap my head around known issues! Thank you! Again, I appreciate your reply and interest. I will definitely jump on the new flasher prior to further electrical diagnosis. The front wiring harness- i did not know about the brown wire, but I did inspect everything VERY carefully. I wrapped it back up and tucked things away Sunday. Took it for a ride and all well with the running systems. It is still too new to me so I am continuing to learn.

I put a tune from Buelltooth, reset the AFV to 100, and reset TPS which made it run VERY nice. That said, my AFV setting has dropped to 90. I continue to read about how the ECM is responding to cause this. Since it is so new to me yet old, I am planning on replacing the 02 sensor first just to eliminate that as a concern. I have already checked for leaks (carb fluid spray) no leaks detected.

If you have any thoughts on this one, I would be very interested.

Ray and Lunatic-

Again, thank you for engaging with this basket case Buell I am trying to resurrect. Meet my little mess (if the file uploads):

 

[tukkayak]

Ray,

Is this the Shindengen Product you were referring to?

Regulator Rectifier Kit Replaces FH012AA For SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH020AA

Specification:
Model: A29609
Product Name: Voltage Regulator / Rectifier Upgrade Kit
Color: Black
Material: Metal
Productgroup: Automotive Parts and Accessories
Dimension: Approx 102x89.5x22.5mm
Manufacturer Part Number: FH020AA

Features:
1.This is a universal regulator/rectifier kit and charging system upgrade kit.
2.The kit can be used to upgrade most 2 wire and 3 wire stator systems.
3.This voltage regulator is great for replacing existing undersized or obsolete regulators.
4.The advanced construction will run cooler than all OEM diode style regulators.
5.In addition, this rectifier has overheat protection, rather than burn up it will simply turn off for a while and cool off.
6.This regulator can handle up to 50amp peaks & 30amp continuous 3 phase, 30amp single phase.
7.Maxi fuse protected, unlike circuit breakers which over time can get weak and be prone to nuisance tripping.

Fitments (Please Compare The Rectifier With Your Original One Before Purchasing!):
For SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH020AA FH012AA

 

[tukkayak]

Buell is also making a mess-

Due to having LOTS to address-

Why would my clutch be moving gear case fluid up the clutch cable causing it to seep out of the clutch adjustment boot?

Thanks,

 

[34nineteen]

Due to having LOTS to address-

Why would my clutch be moving gear case fluid up the clutch cable causing it to seep out of the clutch adjustment boot?

Thanks,

Have you checked the primary fluid level? If the level is proper check to make sure the case isnt getting pressurized. Maybe someone hooked up the crankcase breather hoses to the primary vent.... or maybe the vent is plugged?

Also, at $25 new, that R/R is likely a copy of the Shindengen unit. I'd pass on it. XB's typically dont have charging issues with the R/R. I'd stick to stock.

 

[Rays]

I can't recall what internal resistance measurements of the regulator show (I have done those measurements in the past as I have a faulty regulator here that I started to dissect with a mind to repair but it is presently in the 'get around to it' box).
I will check a good regulator today and get back to you out of technical interest but suffice it to say there is a lot of circuitry inside that regulator/rectifier.
if you are seeing 13.4-14.5v at the battery with everything connected and engine running then that is pretty much normal in my experience.
The only thing that you really need to do for long term reliability is ensure that both connectors (AC in and DC out) are clean and tight. I have seen pins on both sides burn up as a result of prolonged loose fitment.
I have no personal experience with the SHINDENGEN regulators but have seen others post that they have fitted them - someone may chime in on that front.
Personally I have had a very good run with the standard Buell regulators with due attention to the connectors.

You haven't mentioned the instrument cluster - I agree with Lunatic about the crack in the cluster needing further investigation (something my old eyes missed reading your first post).
These are relatively fragile inside so physical damage or moisture ingress can be fatal.

You say that you have disconnected the main harness front and rear for the blinker test and that you are reading continuity from both Left & Right to ground?
I have highlighted the LH circuit on this grab from a Lightning schematic to help illustrate things(hopefully).



The only thing that seems to explain what you are seeing for this measurement is if you still have the instrument cluster plugged in? That would give some sort of resistance reading via the blinker indicator circuit in the cluster but I don't know what that is offhand - I'll check that today.
You are correct in saying there should be 0 ohms measuring from the front blinker power side to the rear blinker power side on either left or right. If that is not the case then my first step would be to measure from those same points to the LH controls plug to see if any of them have continuity to the actual blinker switch. If not, the joins I have shown with the larger black dots on the LH circuit above are physically a splice in the loom. I don't know where they would be on your model but on my Ulys these splices are right at the headstock and are one of the weak points I have encountered quite a few times with other Ulys. The wires are spot-welded together and covered with glue-filled heat shrink. These are a)in the worst possible place for movement stress (on Ulys anyway) and b)very tough to spot because the glue holds the broken wires in place and they look OK visually.
In this photo from my old Uly you can see the brown wire splice on the R/H side that is one blinker join and the red splice that is the power wires that split up to go to the ignition switch and the back-up power for the instruments (electrical tape from a running repair at the time).
Please excuse the huge photo size - I did that to clearly show the glue that has oozed out of the heat-shrink.



Sorry, I can't help with the tuning side as I have kept both mine bog stock - several others here are very experienced in that regard.
Ray

 

[tukkayak]

Have you checked the primary fluid level? If the level is proper check to make sure the case isnt getting pressurized. Maybe someone hooked up the crankcase breather hoses to the primary vent.... or maybe the vent is plugged?

You nailed it. I believe the vent tube has been cut and plugged. I did not know what I was looking at, but the hose that comes off of the top of the gear case behind the rear cylinder has been cut and is plugged. I will have to figure out what the fix will be. I wonder why that was done. HMMMM?????. Good call34nineteen!

 

[tukkayak]

Ray,

Thank you for the detailed response. You bring up a GREAT point regarding wether I had unplugged the cluster while testing the R/L Light Circuits. I honestly can not remember. Tomorrow night I will open it all back up and go through it again. The schematic you posted is VERY similar if not exact to the one that is in the XB12R manual I have. I had highlighted the same path although yours is much more high tech!

The wire loom that I had exposed is in the same place as your pic, but enters more horizontally and turns NORTH towards the Instrument Cluster rather sharply (in my mind that would make it more suspect due to the pivoting stress it has to endure). I found the connectors that you demonstrated with your pic, and mine look to be in good shape, but- as you are suggesting they may be broken inside the shrink-wrap I can take them apart and check. I will make sure to retest continuity prior to making that call (cluster unplugged).

My tests were being taken both from harness plug rear to Harness plug front and found continuity to ground (again, i have to verify again regarding the cluster). I agree that the cluster may be toast as it is pretty open to elements. I will pull it apart and see what is there after I get the cluster pin voltages checked. I was quoted $300 for a new cluster recently. Not sure I am up for that.

Are you aware of more economical options regarding cluster replacement or after market products?

I'm excited to see exact voltages at the cluster in your previous post. No worries with the tune stuff. You are correct- there are some amazing people on this forum with vast amounts of knowledge being passed around.

Sunday evening and tonight, I worked on getting closer to the final product on the plastics. I am a rookie, but I think they turned out ok so far.
I am working on a design to finish them off. Still have not landed on the final look.

Thanks again, will update soon.

 

[njloco]

I like it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !

 

[Rays]

I checked the rectifier/regulator internal readings using diode mode as you have done and I get a very similar reading between each AC input and the +ve DC output - 0.455v one way and open in the reverse direction. I get nothing measuring to the DC -ve.
This was on a brand new Buell regulator that was taken out of the box to test.
The manual doesn't have any specs on internal rectifier/regulator measurements so given you appear to have DC output charging the battery and it is regulating below 15Volts DC then I would limit any further action in this area to checking the physical connectors.
I also tested the two indicator inputs on the instrument cluster to ground (in the cluster) and measured 8.6Mohms on resistance and 0.684v on the diode range.

What is the actual symptom you are chasing with the indicators?
The flasher relay (already flagged by Lunatic) is something I have seen fail a few times, the flasher relay ground is a common failure on Ulys - it is one of the four ground wires attached to the steering head. These tend to break internally and the external plastic sheath remains intact - if you meaure open circuit on the ground wire a light tug on any suspect wire will soon show up as a 'stretchy' wire.
I am assuming you do have +12v power to that flasher relay (accessory fuse)?
The other failure I have seen several times with indicators on XB's is a dirty/corroded contact in the ignition switch. There are two sets of contact in the ignition switch - one set covers the items that are powered in both the 'Park' position and the 'Ignition On' position and the the other set just the 'Ignition On'.
The blinkers also work in Park so this contact can be dodgy and the bike will run just fine.
However, those are all shots in the dark without specifics on the original 'drain the swamp' problem.
Ray