04 XB12R- 64K Electrical Issue

[tukkayak]

Ray, I did not get a chance to dig back into it today. I do have 12 volts at the accessory fuse. I took the bottom cap off of the ignition switch - and did not see any corrosion but will have to dig deeper this weekend. I am coming up to a 3 week vacation so lots of time beginning Saturday.

I will post voltage specifics for the cluster at that time. It sounds like you and I are getting the same readings while testing the VR.

Thanks again!

 

[rb70383]

Good info, another quick test is the wiggle test. May help... Also about probing the harness, a set of wire piercing probes. these are the ones I have but any style will work: link to amazon probes

 

[tukkayak]

Thank you for the link and the post-

This weekend I’m going to wiggle the crap out of that harness.

I made my own wire piercing leads that I connect to. Easy and efficient.

 

[tukkayak]

Ray,. We're you getting 4.55v on both + & - sides of your vr? I only got that reading on the + side. My - side gave no voltage reading.

 

[Rays]

No - only to the +ve DC side as mentioned above.

"I checked the rectifier/regulator internal readings using diode mode as you have done and I get a very similar reading between each AC input and the +ve DC output - 0.455v one way and open in the reverse direction. I get nothing measuring to the DC -ve."

 

[tukkayak]

Good evening Ray,

I finally got back to my wiring mess.

Instrument Cluster Harness:
1. pin 2 has 12v w key on
2 pin 13 0 OHM to negative battery terminal

Lighting:. Turn signals (fuses are good)
1. Someone has deleted the front signals by tying the R brown & L Violet wire (see pics) to the return current in the lighting circuit. It was poorly done. I repaired it (assuming it was done correctly. I believe it was if my thinking is correct. Do you suggest I take the violet and brown split connection apart at this point? Since I am not getting power to the RH turn signal switches? I do not get 12v in any of the Violet/Brown turn signal wires.


I tugged on these and they fell apart- I was hoping that was the issue why no power was present, but not the case.



I disconnected the cluster from the back of the housing, tested continuity from the front turn harness to the rear harness- across the wires (Violet and BRN) 0 OHM reading which is correct. no breaks. With the key on, turn signals activated, no power to the rear harness (again the front is deleted).

2. 12v goes to the horn switch. The horn functions correctly.

3. I tested the turn signal relay and it seems to be functioning correctly although it engages when the key is turned on- I am assuming that is correct.

4. VR - I have come to realize that the voltage regulator is functioning correctly. I am getting the correct DC current able to charge the battery. The Stator is testing correctly also.

What it looks like is there is no power getting to the turn signal circuit. Will the turn signals function if the gauges harness is (disconnected or in my case possibly broken)? That might be where the break in the circuit is but I don't know enough to make that call.

I replaced a headlight ballast and the headlights (hi/low) function correctly. I took the Right Hand Switch housing off of the handle bars and could only find power to the horn circuit in the switch housing with the key on. No other 12v seems to be present in that housing. I activated both sides of the blinkers with no voltage present. SO- back to my question about if the signals will work without the cluster connected.

I am off work for 3 weeks. I am full time on this project now. I hope I have explained things clearly enough to make sense of where I am at with diagnostics. Tomorrow I am hoping to figure out why there seems to be no power to the turn signal circuit.

I thank you in advance and sincerely appreciate any further insights you may have. I will be taking the cluster apart to inspect for internal damage. More to come on that.

 

[tukkayak]

Lunatic,

Sorry for the delay- I purchased a new relay. Decided to test the old one and it seems to be functioning correctly. I posted to Ray on the cluster issue a bit ago. I asked this question in that post, but does the relay engaged immediately with the key activated?

I am going to take the cluster apart tomorrow. I will post my findings. Do you recommend I purchase a used cluster off of evilBAY as you put it? I think I had mentioned a new one costs 300. I saw a mod posted on here where someone had installed an after market digital cluster. Do you have thoughts or experience with that sort of project?

Thanks for any insights.

 

[user_deleted]

Lunatic,

Sorry for the delay- I purchased a new relay. Decided to test the old one and it seems to be functioning correctly. I posted to Ray on the cluster issue a bit ago. I asked this question in that post, but does the relay engaged immediately with the key activated?

I am going to take the cluster apart tomorrow. I will post my findings. Do you recommend I purchase a used cluster off of evilBAY as you put it? I think I had mentioned a new one costs 300. I saw a mod posted on here where someone had installed an after market digital cluster. Do you have thoughts or experience with that sort of project?

Thanks for any insights.

I asked this question in that post, but does the relay engaged immediately with the key activated?

YES.

Do you recommend I purchase a used cluster off of evilBAY as you put it? I think I had mentioned a new one costs 300.
used ebay is fine. it will come with an ebay buyer protection warranty so try it immediately and if not to your satisfaction return it for free. NOTE: the odometer mileage and perhaps even the "face logo" won't be a precise match but ways to address both issues.


I saw a mod posted on here where someone had installed an after market digital cluster. Do you have thoughts or experience with that sort of project?

no experience with same BUT for now....stick with stock. you're chasing so many electrical gremlins the last thing you need right now is throwing more variables into the mix. work with what you have.

 

[tukkayak]

Great advice regarding the cluster. Will do as you suggest. Thank you.

 

[tukkayak]

Ray and Lunatic,

I disassembled the instrument cluster, cleaned the circuit board, cleaned the harness connections and plugged it back in. To my surprise, it cycled and all the lights came on. Good news. I am reinstalling it now, and hoping that it helps out the turn signal concern. I still do not know if the turn signals will work without the instrument cluster plugged in.

Had to share the good news. More to come.[video]https://www.facebook.com/tim.jacobson.505/videos/pcb.10157309699414399/10157309695909399/?type=3&theater[/video]





I tested continuity as Ray suggested from the switch posts to each location at the cluster, to the tail harness where the lights plug in. I wanted to make sure that each harness connection was functioning (hoping to locate a bad harness connection). Every wire tested as it should have. I am assuming this is good news and possible means that I have a bad flasher. That said, I have tested the flasher and it functions correctly. I have good ground to battery back at the rear harness. I just have no current getting to the tail section. I am not sure what I am missing in all of this.

 

[Rays]

Someone has deleted the front signals by tying the R brown & L Violet wire (see pics) to the return current in the lighting circuit. It was poorly done. I repaired it (assuming it was done correctly. I believe it was if my thinking is correct. Do you suggest I take the violet and brown split connection apart at this point? /QUOTE]

I can't understand why anyone would do this because connecting the indicator brown and purple wires directly to ground will disable the blinkers and probably answers the question of why you were measuring continuity to ground on both blinker wires? These should be disconnected I would think - if the front blinkers are deleted then the connection points should be left insulated and NOT connected to anything.

With the front blinker wires disconnected (and any ground shorts removed) measure for zero (or close to it) ohms from the rear blinker connectors to the indicator switch, the instrument cluster plug and the disconnected front blinker wires as shown in the circuit diagram. The multi-wire splices shown in your photos should be where these all tie together so this measurement will determine further digging in these joins.

Assuming you get blinker operation restored, you should also see the rear blinkers should blink faster than they would with the load of the front and rear bulbs in circuit.

Before we go further down this rabbit hole, are there any other wiring modifications in the areas we are trying to remotely diagnose?

 

[tukkayak]

With the front blinker wires disconnected (and any ground shorts removed) measure for zero (or close to it) ohms from the rear blinker connectors to the indicator switch, the instrument cluster plug and the disconnected front blinker wires as shown in the circuit diagram. The multi-wire splices shown in your photos should be where these all tie together so this measurement will determine further digging in these joins.

Test Results:
Left Side Front and Rear to the switch (which is opened up- I tested to the solder joint Brown/Right, Violet/Left)- 0 OHMS
Test to the Front Right & Left Turn Signal Wires (Previously deleted)- 0 OHMS
Test to the Cluster Harness (Brown & Violet) 0 OHMS respectively.

Key on: Tail lights lit up constantly.
Key on: Connected to the rear turn signals- Front wires hanging bare- No Signal yet tail lights were constantly on.

It appears that the brake tail circuits are completed allowing current to flow through them from the key switch.

HMMMMMM>


Assuming you get blinker operation restored, you should also see the rear blinkers should blink faster than they would with the load of the front and rear bulbs in circuit.

Blinker operation not restored by disconnecting the front brown/violet. Should I connect the ground wires together that were previously connected to the front turn signal wires?

Before we go further down this rabbit hole, are there any other wiring modifications in the areas we are trying to remotely diagnose?

Again- not that I know of. Other than the integrated tail light. I know the tail light is operational as I tested it directly from the battery.

Thanks Ray!!!!

 

[Rays]

I have sent you a hand drawn simplified circuit and a few steps to follow via PM - hopefully that will help.

 

[tukkayak]

Thank you! Looking at it now and will jump on that in the morning.

I took the turn switch apart tonight and made sure everything was clean and functioning correctly. No issues wire wise in the housing, but was pretty dirty. It did not solve the open circuit problem.

Tim

 

[tukkayak]

Lunaticfringe, In reference to the no turn signal situation with this bike, this is the flasher that came on the bike. Is this not compatible with this bike?



I ran through a battery of tests that Rays had PM'd me, and everything tested correctly. The only thing I can think is that since this flasher is not the type you recommended, it may be wrong all together. I am stumped at this point.

 

[user_deleted]

Lunaticfringe, In reference to the no turn signal situation with this bike, this is the flasher that came on the bike. Is this not compatible with this bike?

View attachment 12084

I ran through a battery of tests that Rays had PM'd me, and everything tested correctly. The only thing I can think is that since this flasher is not the type you recommended, it may be wrong all together. I am stumped at this point.

tim: in all honesty anytime i see a non-stock non-OEM flasher or similar electrical device i immediately question if it is any good. see page 1 of this thread for the description...pic...and part # for an original flasher. IMO it's worth trying a known good OEM flasher since you've done this battery of tests and ran out of ideas. it is what i would do in the same situation.

 

[tukkayak]

I HAVE BLINKERS!

Thank you to Rays and Lunatic for their expert guidance. ALL credit goes to those two!

As a reminder- this bike is new to me, and now that the cluster works, had 68086 miles showing. It now has 68186 miles as it got a 100 mile workout today. I plan on an eventual frame of restore with a 1275 kit and upgraded oil pump. But there are other issues to resolve first. I am 1/2 way through a paint job. I put the plastics back on to mask the layout for the matte finish.

Problems:
1. The front blinker delete done in a way that provided a dead short reading through both tail Violet (left) and Brown (Right) tail harness connections.
2. The flasher was the wrong type. Once corrected- lights functioned (after #1 was sorted out).
3. Instrument Cluster circuit board was cleaned- look up youtube how too's for that one.
4. ALL connection points, harnesses, for VR, Stator, Lights front and rear, ECM, Relays, were cleaned and packed with dialectric grease
5. ALL grounding points were cleaned, to bare aluminum, then dialectric grease and tightened securely (continuity tested after to each harness point)
6. Buelltooth Jarding/K&N Map Downloaded- provided by buelltooth. EXCELLENT PRODUCT, EXCELLENT SERVICE!

I know I am forgetting a few things, but want to give credit once again to Lunatic and Rays for their expertise.

I am getting ready to shoot the Dark Matte Grey on Wednesday- will post the outcome. Here are a few pics of this little project in its current state.

 

[tukkayak]

Does anyone know why the photos turn sideways?

 

[34nineteen]

Does anyone know why the photos turn sideways?

Sometimes phones format them differently than computers. Its not just a forum thing.