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Former Race Buells hiding under tarps?

Buellxb Forum

Help Support Buellxb Forum:

My meter isn't good enough to show the ground issue if present, neg terminal of the batt to a rocker cover bolt is .0001 ohm, wiggling my suspect ground strap made no difference. I'm going to pull the luggage hardware, that will let me tip the subframe as suggested just to double check things, try and tighten the crimp on that negative ground strap, and get a pump rebuild kit on order. When it cuts out it still reads RPM accurately, which implies to me that ignition is still happening? Can anyone confirm a loss of spark output from the ECU also results in a tach dropping straight to 0? I'll order an hour/RPM meter too, cheap way to see if it's dropping spark or injection when it acts up.

Can anyone confirm a loss of spark output from the ECU also results in a tach dropping straight to 0?


The charging and signaling of the coil is NOT related to tachometer operation. Completely different circuitry. X and XT intermittent and total failure tachometer operation dating back to 2005 fairly well documented, as are the causes.
 
As you can imagine, I'm a bit hesitant to throw random tunes off the internet into it, though I've not found any that aren't behind some level of paywall yet. ECU is BUE2D ver, calibration is listed as M31DX232 if that rings any bells.

You're in luck that the BUE2D is the latest firmware version and the easiest to find tunes for:up: Yes, random internet tunes are rolling the dice, but you want it for free right? and all you are looking for is a stock-ish one to help diagnose the issue and move on. Not a permanent solution. For that, I would recommend IDSpd.com and spend $300 for a plug-n-play ECM. IMO, worth it for even a few races before you open Pandoras box with a 1275 kit and need a whole new tune anyway. They have those too.

I have plenty of spare DDFI-2 ECM's with unknown tunes on them if you'd rather have an extra to play with, but IMO not necessary.

Or send a message to Rev-Mo.com with your Buelltooth receipt and they'll supply you with any tune you want for free. If you don't have a receipt for one, buy a shirt or something, IMO still worth $20-40 for the service.

You get what you pay for... :black_eyed:
 
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Can anyone confirm a loss of spark output from the ECU also results in a tach dropping straight to 0?


The charging and signaling of the coil is NOT related to tachometer operation. Completely different circuitry. X and XT intermittent and total failure tachometer operation dating back to 2005 fairly well documented, as are the causes.

Thank you so much! Your help is always appreciated! But he doesn't have an issue with the tach dropping:(
In fact, his tach continues to work with the engine cutting out, leading us to think the cutting out is fuel or fuel injector/wiring related. You guessed at a new fuel pump for him before, but we haven't even tested it yet. Maybe thats it? I'd like to find out before spending hundreds of dollars. What else do you think it could be?

But here:
Screen Shot 2023-07-09 at 4.04.01 PM.jpg
You can see the tach drive wire (Pink) is clearly leading directly to the ECM (appendix B, figure B-8) from the Uly service manual link I have posted before. If you lose signal from the ECM, you are losing spark, and the Tach will drop immediately, even coasting with the clutch out and the engine spinning the tach will read Zero.
 
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You get what you pay for... :black_eyed:

But, but, I'm pleading 'racer!' Not only am I a broke ass cheapskate, I also need it yesterday! :p Options are being explored, question is how much downtime can I tolerate vs how much potential overspend do I want to commit to, etc, the normal drama.
 
Got my head smacked by another friend for not checking the first obvious thing, tank venting. On the side stand I can move air in and out of the tank through the breather tube, when the weather improves I'll do another test ride, get it good and angry at me and then pop the fuel cap to see if that changes it's behavior.

In other news, didn't know the luggage is German, and that Hepco and Becker still sell parts for it, neat.
 
Got my head smacked by another friend for not checking the first obvious thing, tank venting. On the side stand I can move air in and out of the tank through the breather tube, when the weather improves I'll do another test ride, get it good and angry at me and then pop the fuel cap to see if that changes it's behavior.

In other news, didn't know the luggage is German, and that Hepco and Becker still sell parts for it, neat.

That valve basically has a ball that rolls around and plugs the vent when its OFF the stand. If you removed the two screws and ring securing it to the tank, you can just pop it right out and feel the ball rolling around inside it.

DSC0193_552.jpg


https://www.ebay.com/itm/3130765977...MIztypxaqFgAMV6AutBh2ihwQ5EAQYBCABEgKdgfD_BwE



CoOter says the fuel cap is vented but I think his head is vented. I've taken apart the fuel cap plenty of times, and there is no venting port in it, unless its relying on the venting to happen through the lock cylinder.
 
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I don't know that I said that specifically? I'd have to take one apart again to look. I know the tank has the roll-over vent, a charcoal canister pressure vent and a spill vent (thats above the caps o-ring line in the well of the frame).
 
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I don't know that I said that specifically? I'd have to take one apart again to look. I know the tank has the roll-over vent, a charcoal canister pressure vent and a spill vent (thats above the caps o-ring line in the well of the frame).

Maybe you did and maybe you didn't. Either way it makes for good forum banter (at least in my eyes). Wait, I think you might have with the guy with the 1125 who was all fired up about gas droplets getting on his back tire.



Charcoal canister pressure vent? What the H-E-double hockey sticks are you talking about? Maybe on the 1125/1190?
 
Drained the tank, vent works mint and I can control the flow by putting my thumb over the vent, so that checks out. Fuel came out nice and clean, no signs of excess smeg in the tank, nice. Also confirmed my low fuel sensor is junk, dash light works but even after 30 seconds with an empty tank, no joy from the sensor. I don't NEED it for a race bike, but it is nice to have.
 
As i've got far too much idle time I've been stewing on this some more... a borderline coil could cause this failure mode too... Starts out fine when cold, as it heats up spark voltage drops, till it gets low enough that rolling the throttle on raises pressure in the cylinders above what it can jump through. Coil can't dump for a moment, heats up more and goes open... now I've got no throttle response, RPM still reads 'cause the ECU is calling for ignition with a good crank signal... coil cools and resumes firing?
 
Sure it's in one box, but it's 2 coils. Possible sure, but not probable that both could fail exactly at the same time, or that consistently. These will go 60 mph on the highway on one cylinder BTW, but only if you put an "X" on the bad coil (shut UP A-A-ron!)

CPS are known to fail with heat like that BTW. Try the ol' heat gun trick or read the datalog.
 
Oh, a look at the wiring diagram would have pointed that out to me, figured it was a two output common coil like I'm used to on inline fours and some parallel twins. If the CPS failed, wouldn't I loose the tach?
 
If the CPS failed, wouldn't I loose the tach?

Yes.

You did say the 'tach read accurately when this happens', but maybe it's freezing in place? A zero signal to a powered tach will drop it to zero, a loss of power and it would just hang in place.

Are you maybe losing ignition power? Datalog would tell you that too, but the Ign/key/red run switch circuit has a relay in it as well. Red run switches can get corroded, wiggle test it while running? The relays are the same BTW, switch them around and clean the socket real well. Couldn't hurt.
 
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It reads fully, dropping down as my speed drops, if I drop a gear it jumps up to match, etc. I'll take a peek at that relay, switch, etc too when I get a chance. While I wait for the last fuel pump bit to arrive I'm thinking the front brake is going to get some R&R, including possibly a spa day in my ultrasonic cleaner. Two possible track day windows this month I'm hoping to hit.
 
Ok good info. Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like an electrical issue (the way it drops out and comes back) but I'm honestly still leaning to a fueling issue from my experience with bad tunes.

IMHO, Don't spend too much on that 6-piston, when a ZTL-2 and radial M/C are such a bolt-on cheap upgrade for a huge difference.
 
So... I'm really kinda curious now. Brake master, immaculate save for some road dust on the outside where it's not as easy to wipe down, etc. Absolutely NO signs of ever weeping, paint is all pristine. Open it up, fluid is clean, inside is SPOTLESS, like fresh out of the mold spotless. I've opened NEW masters that were grungier. Line, banjos, clearly original, caliper outside cleaned up spotless with little effort, pistons only had a dusting of brake dust that canned air and a toothbrush eliminated revealing clean hardware underneath, anti-rattle spring is clean, pistons pushed in easily by hand... meanwhile pads are fried, pad pin is corroded and flat spotted. So I didn't bother tearing it apart and ultrasonicing it, fluid was clean, nothing was binding so... fresh set of EBC EPFA pads, fresh fluid and properly bled. Last owner had the bike from 2018 on, claimed to never had any brake work done?

On the rotor front, I don't have a good known flat surface but I suspect the EBC is slightly warped from it not quite sitting flat on my workbench top. Honed it anyways, remounted with the old style bolt setup, no springs. Floats well, there isn't an obvious 'tight' spot when spinning the front wheel by hand now, but who knows. At this point I only need that front brake to work good enough for street testing once I rebuild the fuel pump.

I've found a source of usable 5mm finned rotors, I've got updated mount kits on hand for that eventuality. They've got new calipers as well, though the price is a bit more than what's floating on eBay, not quite ready to make that commitment yet, will see how things look once it's otherwise running well.

On the parts hunt side of things, seems new OEM clutch levers are hard to find, and I haven't tried chasing down the regular pivot bolts vs the long Ulysses setups for hand guards, my lever is pretty dang sloppy at this point so that's on the list of stuff to find.
 
You can find the correct size shoulder bolt at a hardware store or McMaster-Carr. I forget what it is but I've done the conversion a few times. Remember black-oxide will rust outside pretty quick so if that the finish you find, at least paint the head:eagerness:
 
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