Harley Davidson Strategy. As I see it.

[wokor2wheel]

Ok Icepop let me ask you a question and be honest. Did you buy a new or used bike? If it was new did you pay full price? Same if it was used. Why am I asking these questions you ask? I will tell you why. Because Buell did not make a bike that the buying public was willing to pay full price for. I can remember only 5 people that I have ever sold a Buell to that felt they got their money's worth. And money is Harley's driving force... its that way with every business.
Let me put it another way that maybe even you can understand. If you own a dealer that carries two makes of bikes. A and B. Both have to be worked on by trained techs. for there respective brands. Those techs. have to be trained and certified for that brand. Plus Parts people that are trained.
Lets look at A Bikes that sell 10 to 15% below MSRP on average with no extras. The customer doesn't buy anything from the store maybe a shirt, and some parts. Does most of the work him self and only comes in when there is a pending recall.
B Bikes MSRP to maybe 10% on occasion unless it is a V-Rod. They come in for chrome and service. They are happy to spend their money...do you see where Im going with this. continued
Now B Bikes

 

[wokor2wheel]

So ICEPOP if you want to sit there and BASH Harley Davidson for pulling to plug on BUELL you go right ahead and do that. Its your right. Who's fault is it that brought down this philosopher, and builder of great bikes... You, me Harley or is it all of they above? Well since they are (Harley) is offering the rebate on all Buell bikes. I thought I would like to tell you that as an example we are selling 1125R's for $6500.00 plus tax. That is only a $500.00 dollar profit, some what, on a bike that has been sitting on the sales floor for 2 years! It is actually a loss. Not a single one has been sold. These bikes work and have all the recall work done (ECM FLASH and Tail Lights). No one is beating down the doors, but they say they would buy them for $4000 or $3500. They say people will pay for what they think a bike is worth. For the price above I could buy a new Suzuki Burgman 650 or 2 1125R's. So POP if you decide to go out and buy your Victory do them a favor buy the t-shirt and get the oil change and don't bitch about the price. Someone else is depending on your money to survive.

 

[wokor2wheel]

I for one can only hope that Harley will not throw Buell completely out of sight. I think they could make that people would be willing to pay MSRP for and be happy doing it. Only time will tell.

 

[ghost96b69]

Wokor - any moron can look on e-bay and craig's list and see hundreds of Harley's in every region with every chrome accessory available and almost no miles for half of what a new one costs.. there are only 17 viable Buell XB's Nationwide.. None on the west coast.. A lot of people in marketing can tell you that you can tell what people like by what's available used. That'd tell me people have a lot of Chrome Couches sitting around and the Buell's are getting kept, polished, and ridden. So to blame Buell is ridiculous. First of all, the 1125R is an ugly bike and unlike other motorcycle manufacturer's and especially Harley Davidson, they offer almost NO accessories or customization for the bikes. If anyone knows how much money can be made on customization & accessories, it's Harley, but in 11 years they've offered almost nothing. What does that tell you?! That tells me that Buell is the red headed step child and having had 2 Buell's now and a Harley, I can tell you that there is a definite difference to the way the people at the dealership treat you when you ride in on a Harley vs. a Buell - and now I know that it trickles down from the Corporate office.. Harley is a bunch of selfish ******** who are offering 34 Old man Ponytail Biker bikes and some cheap Sportsters rather than cutting a few of the "Ultra's" and "Classics" to keep some room for a diverse offering. But you keep Smoking on Harley's pole - I'll never buy another Harley in my lifetime. They are done with me.

 

[rndrkeagle]

Woker2Wheel,

I'm going to have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I think the prevailing answer to the argument you're making is to state that in the case of your dealership, it's very obvious that selling Buell Sport bikes in a dealership that is focused on selling cruisers, was not a very good fit. Is that the fault of the bike or the marketing? Does your dealership advertise in local newspapers or TV/Radio? Look at the content in those ads. What you will probably conclude is that the people in your market area don't know that they can buy a sport bike at your dealership. They probably know where they can buy a Susucky or a KawaSucky... and they look to you for their "Old School Cruisers".
The fact is that there have been 135,000 Buell bikes built. The vast majority of those are NOT in the hands of the dealerships that they went to. They've been sold, and they've been sold to the very people who created, maintain and post on this forum (among others). What you are saying is that we are all either suckers for paying too much and being happy about it OR we're cheapskates that negotiated the dealers down to absurdly low prices.(Either way I don't think I like what you're calling me) I bought my bike used because that was what I could Afford to do. That doesn't make me any less loyal to this brand, or any less of a fan. I wanted a Buell and I bought what I could afford.

My hope is that Erik IS able to resurrect his company in some way independent from the corporate BS that has become the Great American Motorcycle. At 40 years old, I Remember when Harley themselves had to get BAILED out by the American public. I remember the Parade of Harley's on Wall Street. I remember how they had to get PILES of cash to help them r-invent "The Great American Motorcycle Company" as something other than a piss poor quality bike maker. I remember the jokes about how you had to drive your new Harley home and tighten all the bolts and how every hour of riding required 2 hours of maintenance.

I also know that EVEN paying MSRP on a Buell... I'm getting a LOT more of a bike for the money than anything that has a Harley Davidson brand on it.

If Erik converts over to using metric fasteners instead of SAE and holds on to that Rotax in the 1125R and CR, (and maybe makes a Uly version of it).. he could sell them at the Rice Rocket Dealerships with a hell of a lot more success. AT the MSRP price!

 

[ghost96b69]

RNDRKEAGLE - I am not worthy.. I think I smell smoke?![up]

 

[okey]

i work for a dealership as an automotive parts interpreter and i dont care if the customer purchases a small car , medium car or a balls out grand tourer as i treat them all with care and attention because they are paying my wage and i need them to earn. I purchased my Buell new and knew more about the product then the salesman.I would have fricken decked myself out in a whole heap of gear had it been available but i couldn't even buy a shirt...ohhh they ****** gave me a keyring they found in a drawer.Harley ****** salesman are to blame for Buell going to the wall as they offered no support that i have ever come across for this product.I do have my bike serviced by harley and i do buy their oils , polishes and consumables and it would be nice if one day, and even ****** once i felt like the parts,service or new bike salesman actually wanted me in their dealership.

 

[wokor2wheel]

I have worked at two Harley and Buell dealers and the are very different in the sense of they way they present the product. And they (the buying public) Are rarely going to pay MSRP for the bike if they come in. To give you the lowdown on what I'm saying one 1125R was sold in the past 2 years and then he brought it back and traded that in for a XR1200! If people don't buy what you sell then you are in the storage business! Ghost!!!! Even you say the 1125R is an UGLY BIKE!!!
You have Eagle here says that if they build a bike with the Rotax motor in a Uly frame that that people would buy them. I have sold more Buells at the two dealerships than anyone else and that doesn't say much. Do you really think I'm buying everything that Harley is dumping down the pipe?? I'm at the front lines.. I'm in sales..if we don't sell it we don't sell it. Yes we have done promos for Buell and 5 people showed up. It doesn't make much sense to keep throwing money at something that doesn't sell. I will sell you a Buell just as well as a Harley. It makes no difference to me. Just don't come and tell me that you will take that UGLY and fast 1125R off my hands for half price.

 

[wokor2wheel]

Okey, I'm sorry that you had a bad buying experience, but I'm glad that you go back to the dealer to get your work done. So if you could, tell us about your buying experience. Start to finish. Did the sales guy come out and say here is what we have and this is the price. Kind of a no haggle sales pitch?? Tell us.

 

[rndrkeagle]

trust me Woker... I would take that deal... I have been spending long nights trying to find a way I can get one of the '09 1125R's that my local dealer has on the chopping block at $9500... I would actually be willing to buy them at MSRP... but as a sales rep in a different industry that is also suffering from the current economy, and a father... I have to prioritize my finances and simply cannot afford to buy a new bike right now..

I LIKE the looks of the 1125R... I think the CR is even better looking.. and Living in Texas... I would jump at a watercooled Buell because that stovepipe that is my XB12R that I'm wrapping my legs around in Texas summers is cooking the twig and berries!

 

[wokor2wheel]

Eagle I'm in Michigan and believe me we feel your pain also. I see more people in the bathroom than on the showroom floor at times.

 

[jimmy]

WOK
I have to say my sales experience with Harley has been about the best I ever had. They did not to the no hagle sales pitch instead they quoted the msrp and asked what i would like to do. There was hagling involved but not like the normal I low ball they go high and we eventually meet in the middle. Thats the reason I bought two bikes from them.

 

[fishgutz]

Eagle, I bought an under seat heat shield from Spec ops. Supposed work great. Have to wait until next summer to know for sure. No more humming "Chestnuts Roating on an open fire."

 

[teh Nub]

My local Honda dealer is setting on 08' CBR1000RR's for $6,800 so it's not just HD/Buell that can't sell bikes...

 

[rndrkeagle]

LOL Fishgutz... yeah.. I've found myself singing the same tune... I actually just tell myself that I'm done having kids and have been contemplating the little snip snip procedure anyways... so riding the Buell in Stop and Go traffic in Texas heat could have a use for me.


On a side note... you guys will love this... look it up.. it's true...

the most well known Urologist the Austin Texas Area... Dr. Richard "Dick" Chopp!

you can't make this **** up!

http://www.urologyteam.com/?q=dr-richard-chopp

 

[typeone]

an explanation for the $4,999 sale prices, hmmm.. .

Harley-Davidson is paying dealers a $5,000 per-bike incentive for each new Buell they sell, irrespective of model. Until now, this incentive was top secret, with dealers and Harley employees under strict orders not to reveal it to the public or media. Oops.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/harley-paying-dealers-5000-for.html#more

 

[ghost96b69]

First of all, the 1125R and the XR1200 are completely different bikes. If he brought it back for the 1125R it was for different reasons and none of it had to do with performance. One bike is a sport/race bike and the other is a flat track bike - the seat position on either bike is completely different. Sounds to me like you are a typical Harley Davidson employee talking smack about Buell, just STFU & go to a Harley site so you can suck on Willie G's Rod with everyone else.. the Buell XB series sells, I see tons of em' here in Southern California and I've had 2 in the past year, along with my VROD. Buell's are Huge in Europe, as is the VROD.. Harley has sold Buell and with no support like they give their old fart bikes.. Rather than offer 34 versions of 5 bikes, which everyone knows are just over-inflated versions of the same ol' same ol' with different accessories & chrome packages.. Face it, Harley makes all of their money on aftermarket parts and customization and if they can stack it all on a CVO version of the bike and bump a $15k bike up to $30k and some sucker will buy, why not right?! Like I said before, if anyone knows the value of customization, accessories, and aftermarket parts it's Harley and they have done NONE of that for Buell. They set Buell up to fail to emphasize that their bikes are better. Buell is the bike they used to get the younger buyers in the showroom so they could try to turn them to the Sportster or Dyna - they never cared about Buell and they never supported Buell. If Buell didn't sell it's Harley Davidson's fault. Harley Davidson is in it for Harley Davidson and screw the other companies they purchased. What would've happened if Chrysler did the same to Jeep when they bought em' from AMC - or Hummer after they were purchased by GM? Harley can't even take care of Harley.. the 1125R is an ugly bike, if I was in the market for a race bike like that I would buy a Hayabusa or R1 - but I'm not, the XB-S is the best all around bike on the market to me, that's where the emphasis should be. To offer 9 new models (which let's be honest, aren't really new) and try to sell 34 different bikes while they Cut Buell & sell MV Agusta is a slap in the face, but they never cared about Buell or it's customers to begin with.. SO I guess I'm not surprised.[smirk]

 

[fishgutz]

Damn. Can I get a letter from HD stating that the current market price for my 09 Buell is $5000 less and therefore they must reduce my property tax assessment on the bike by that amount?

 

[ghost96b69]

Harley Davidson - 2010 they are offering the following:

Sportster Iron 883 – MSRP $7999
Sportster Nightster - $9999
Sportster 883 Low - $6999
Sportster XR1200 - $10799
Sportster 1200 Custom - $9999
Sportster 1200 Low - $9899

Softail CVO Convertible – MSRP $27999
Softail Fat Boy Lo - $16,299
Softail Heritage Classic - $16999
Softail Fat Boy - $15999
Softail Rocker C - $19499
Softail Deluxe - $16799
Softail Cross Bones - $16999
Softail Custom - $16999

Dyna Glide Fat Bob – MSRP $14999
Dyna Glide Street Bob - $12999
Dyna Wide Glide - $14499
Dyna Glide CVO Fat Bob - $25299
Dyna Glide Super Custom - $12999
Dyna Glide Super Glide - $11999

Street Glide Trike – MSRP $26999
Street Glide base - $18999
Street Glide CVO - $30999

Tri Glide Ultra Classic – MSRP $29999
Electric Glide CVO ultra classic - $35999
Electra Glide Ultra Limited - $24699
Electra Glide Ultra Classic - $20999
Road Glide Custom Base - $18999
Electra Glide Classic - $18999

Road King Classic – MSRP $17999
Road King Base - $16999

VROD Nightrod Special – MSRP $16699
VROD Muscle - $17199
VROD - $14999

The only Great bikes Harley has are the Rocker-C, the Street Glide, the Nightster, and the Nightrod, everything else is junk.. You can get a complete custom from Big Bear Choppers or Sucker Punch Sally's with a bigger engine and bigger rear tire for the price of a Dyna Glide CVO or Softail CVO - are you kidding me?!

You're going to sit there and tell me that will all of the fluff you see above you can't see room for the Buell XB series and an emphasis on aftermarket accessories, custom seats like they offer for their chrome couches, and custom body kits?! You think Buell owners wouldn't pay for custom body kits & custom seats?! They would. You're an idiot. Back to your dealership, go have fun talking smack about Buell to some biker in leather chaps..

 

[jimmy]

ghost the junk comment might be a bit much. What about the iron and the xr1200. I mean those are what a sportster are supposed to be.