Harley Davidson Strategy. As I see it.

[wokor2wheel]

I for one can only hope that Harley will not throw Buell completely out of sight. I think they could make that people would be willing to pay MSRP for and be happy doing it. Only time will tell.

 

[rndrkeagle]

Woker2Wheel,

I'm going to have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I think the prevailing answer to the argument you're making is to state that in the case of your dealership, it's very obvious that selling Buell Sport bikes in a dealership that is focused on selling cruisers, was not a very good fit. Is that the fault of the bike or the marketing? Does your dealership advertise in local newspapers or TV/Radio? Look at the content in those ads. What you will probably conclude is that the people in your market area don't know that they can buy a sport bike at your dealership. They probably know where they can buy a Susucky or a KawaSucky... and they look to you for their "Old School Cruisers".
The fact is that there have been 135,000 Buell bikes built. The vast majority of those are NOT in the hands of the dealerships that they went to. They've been sold, and they've been sold to the very people who created, maintain and post on this forum (among others). What you are saying is that we are all either suckers for paying too much and being happy about it OR we're cheapskates that negotiated the dealers down to absurdly low prices.(Either way I don't think I like what you're calling me) I bought my bike used because that was what I could Afford to do. That doesn't make me any less loyal to this brand, or any less of a fan. I wanted a Buell and I bought what I could afford.

My hope is that Erik IS able to resurrect his company in some way independent from the corporate BS that has become the Great American Motorcycle. At 40 years old, I Remember when Harley themselves had to get BAILED out by the American public. I remember the Parade of Harley's on Wall Street. I remember how they had to get PILES of cash to help them r-invent "The Great American Motorcycle Company" as something other than a piss poor quality bike maker. I remember the jokes about how you had to drive your new Harley home and tighten all the bolts and how every hour of riding required 2 hours of maintenance.

I also know that EVEN paying MSRP on a Buell... I'm getting a LOT more of a bike for the money than anything that has a Harley Davidson brand on it.

If Erik converts over to using metric fasteners instead of SAE and holds on to that Rotax in the 1125R and CR, (and maybe makes a Uly version of it).. he could sell them at the Rice Rocket Dealerships with a hell of a lot more success. AT the MSRP price!

 

[ghost96b69]

RNDRKEAGLE - I am not worthy.. I think I smell smoke?![up]

 

[wokor2wheel]

I have worked at two Harley and Buell dealers and the are very different in the sense of they way they present the product. And they (the buying public) Are rarely going to pay MSRP for the bike if they come in. To give you the lowdown on what I'm saying one 1125R was sold in the past 2 years and then he brought it back and traded that in for a XR1200! If people don't buy what you sell then you are in the storage business! Ghost!!!! Even you say the 1125R is an UGLY BIKE!!!
You have Eagle here says that if they build a bike with the Rotax motor in a Uly frame that that people would buy them. I have sold more Buells at the two dealerships than anyone else and that doesn't say much. Do you really think I'm buying everything that Harley is dumping down the pipe?? I'm at the front lines.. I'm in sales..if we don't sell it we don't sell it. Yes we have done promos for Buell and 5 people showed up. It doesn't make much sense to keep throwing money at something that doesn't sell. I will sell you a Buell just as well as a Harley. It makes no difference to me. Just don't come and tell me that you will take that UGLY and fast 1125R off my hands for half price.

 

[wokor2wheel]

Okey, I'm sorry that you had a bad buying experience, but I'm glad that you go back to the dealer to get your work done. So if you could, tell us about your buying experience. Start to finish. Did the sales guy come out and say here is what we have and this is the price. Kind of a no haggle sales pitch?? Tell us.

 

[rndrkeagle]

trust me Woker... I would take that deal... I have been spending long nights trying to find a way I can get one of the '09 1125R's that my local dealer has on the chopping block at $9500... I would actually be willing to buy them at MSRP... but as a sales rep in a different industry that is also suffering from the current economy, and a father... I have to prioritize my finances and simply cannot afford to buy a new bike right now..

I LIKE the looks of the 1125R... I think the CR is even better looking.. and Living in Texas... I would jump at a watercooled Buell because that stovepipe that is my XB12R that I'm wrapping my legs around in Texas summers is cooking the twig and berries!

 

[wokor2wheel]

Eagle I'm in Michigan and believe me we feel your pain also. I see more people in the bathroom than on the showroom floor at times.

 

[jimmy]

WOK
I have to say my sales experience with Harley has been about the best I ever had. They did not to the no hagle sales pitch instead they quoted the msrp and asked what i would like to do. There was hagling involved but not like the normal I low ball they go high and we eventually meet in the middle. Thats the reason I bought two bikes from them.

 

[fishgutz]

Eagle, I bought an under seat heat shield from Spec ops. Supposed work great. Have to wait until next summer to know for sure. No more humming "Chestnuts Roating on an open fire."

 

[teh Nub]

My local Honda dealer is setting on 08' CBR1000RR's for $6,800 so it's not just HD/Buell that can't sell bikes...

 

[rndrkeagle]

LOL Fishgutz... yeah.. I've found myself singing the same tune... I actually just tell myself that I'm done having kids and have been contemplating the little snip snip procedure anyways... so riding the Buell in Stop and Go traffic in Texas heat could have a use for me.


On a side note... you guys will love this... look it up.. it's true...

the most well known Urologist the Austin Texas Area... Dr. Richard "Dick" Chopp!

you can't make this **** up!

http://www.urologyteam.com/?q=dr-richard-chopp

 

[typeone]

an explanation for the $4,999 sale prices, hmmm.. .

Harley-Davidson is paying dealers a $5,000 per-bike incentive for each new Buell they sell, irrespective of model. Until now, this incentive was top secret, with dealers and Harley employees under strict orders not to reveal it to the public or media. Oops.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/harley-paying-dealers-5000-for.html#more

 

[fishgutz]

Damn. Can I get a letter from HD stating that the current market price for my 09 Buell is $5000 less and therefore they must reduce my property tax assessment on the bike by that amount?

 

[jimmy]

ghost the junk comment might be a bit much. What about the iron and the xr1200. I mean those are what a sportster are supposed to be.

 

[XBear9S]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/20/buell-will-be-back-county-officials-throwing-axed-hd-brand-a-li/

Special K!
Central Texas Hill Country HellBuellies
"I'm a HellBuelly! What the hell are you?"

"Sans la Buell la Vie serait une Erreur"
"Without Buell, life would be a serious mistake."

- Frederich Bueller Nietzsche

 

[ghost96b69]

Your GD right I'm not in sales, I would never rely on someone walking in the door randomly to pay my salary. I'm an Engineer - and yes, Harley did want Buell to fail. The put em' out there half heartedly because they bought the company but they didn't push the product and they certainly didn't offer anything to try to make people Want the Buell bikes. The Rocker C & Nightrod, nor the Nightster sit & collect dust around here. The Rocker C has to be special ordered and there are NONE on e-bay. Like I said, the bikes you see the most of in the Used market are the one's people buy and then realize they don't want. Like the Sportster. When I was in the market for a Harley last year everyone I know that has a Harley told me NOT to get a Sportster no matter what and by the looks of it, they were right. Seems like anyone that has one has hardly any miles on it and can't even give it away. Everyone knows that if you constantly want to have your bike in the shop or if you constantly want to break down, you'll buy a Harley. The only bike I've heard of that has any exceptional reliability is the VROD, because it's the only modern bike in the Harley lineup. Not offering any customization & accessories for the Buell when that is basically the Harley trademark, cancelling Buell rather than trying to sell, and adding 9 more Old Tired variances to an already Bloated lineup is testimonial that Harley has no idea what they're doing and my hope is that they completely tank once & for all. They've been in business too long and their ego has gotten the best of them this time.

 

[ghost96b69]

There are 708 Harley Davidson Motorcycles on e-bay Nationwide with less than 5000 miles & less than 5 years old.
156 are Sportsters - 22%
95 are Dyna's - 13%
194 are Softails - 27%
164 are Touring bikes - 23%
49 are VRSC - 7%
Another 50 are miscellaneous - made up of every type of Harley the seller just didn't classify correctly.

I'd actually like to research what percentage of the MSRP the listed bikes are going for on average as well. Then you'd really see where the problems are, and it's not with Buell. There is ONE Buell with less than 5k miles between the years of 04-09 on e-bay and it's $4900.. If you want a Harley you can find one on any street corner for sale.. You have to search & wait for a Buell. Good luck Harley Davidson.. Sales are down 85% and it's not Buell's fault.. Something else is going on.. and I think I've illustrated what it is.

 

[fishgutz]

Wok and Ghost, you guys just need to whip 'em out and show who has the bigger ........

 

[wokor2wheel]

You know what? I love the ad for the Sportster Iron you see pop up from time to time on this forum. LOL

 

[rndrkeagle]

ok.. both of you back up to your respective corners and take the gloves off... there's no point in turning this into a pissing match... comparing the lengths of your junk for us all to watch.

You both have very valid points.. lose the insults and we've got us a good little debate here..

for what it's worth... just my little 2 cents.. I don't know that I would say that Harley WANTED Buell to fail... but I would say they didn't really set them up for success. Moreover, in the end.. I just think that Harley was a bad company to OWN Buell. They are just too different in fundamental application. People don't go to Harley Davidson dealerships to buy a sport bike. They may LEAVE with one... but for the most part, they went in there to look at cruisers and touring bikes. Anyone who doesn't know Buell like we owners do, or have a friend that owns one, has never heard of Buell and for that I DO blame Harley and the dealership network... but in the end... there are very few people that ever went into a Harley dealer to buy a Buell... (those that did... are here arguing with each other about the price of tea in China!)

To the vast majority of the Sport bike owners out there.. HD Dealers are the last place they'd be caught dead in. To the American public... going to a Harley dealer for a Sport bike would be on par with going to a Hummer Dealership to buy an Exotic Italian Sports Car. and a significant part of the blame for that definitely goes back to Harley and the dealership network because Marketing and Advertising are the ONLY way to change that fact.