How to find out if key switch is bad?????

[Spanky 4867]

Hello I am new to the site and Buell's. I picked up a 2005 xb12 in trade for another bike I had. The bike runs great but doesn't have no tach, speedo, blinkers or taillight, I read in this section that the key switch may have a broken wire and dirty contacts. I pulled the switch and sure enough it had a broken wire and dirty contact. I have now fixed the wire and cleaned the contacts but the bike is doing the same thing. The neutral light comes on for second when I crank the bike up. I changed all the fuses with new ones just in case, no luck. I pulled the battery out and cleaned the grounding point and gave the battery a good charge as well, still no luck. What else can I check before purchasing a key switch?

 

[Iamarchangel]

Try moving the relays around, they're in the other "fuse box".

I'd look at ground issues first and that's a pain. There's a couple of ground screws on the steering stem. That would be my guess although the ECM could be toast.

Could be a couple of problems, like dead speed sensor and something else. I'd leave that for now until you get the tach working.

At the top of this page is a link to a pdf manual. Actually, you're in luck: it's for your model.

 

[Spanky 4867]

Thanks for the reply's , I checked the ground straps on steering stem and they aren't broken. I have the R model.

 

[Spanky 4867]

When I remove the bottom left fuse and replace the tach will cycle once. I don't know if this is normal or a sign of something else.

 

[Rays]

Let me preface this by saying I have never actually worked on an R so this is a guesstimate based on looking at the circuit diagram. I have had similar issues with Ulys but it seems they are wired slightly differently with the instrument main power.

The speedo & tacho module is supplied with two sources of +12v. One is switched via the ignition switch and the other is 'hot' all of the time to provide a 'keep-alive' voltage to the tripmeters and clock. This is provided via the Keyswitch fuse on the R model and looks like that is the one you mentioned above. With the ignition OFF, breaking/making the keep-alive supply should result in the speedo & tacho 'sweeping' once. The fact that the speedo doesn't sweep looks like a second issue and I would guess at the instrument cluster itself but first things first.
The main power for the instruments, the rear tailight, the blinker relay and the front running light (not used in the US I believe) all comes via the 'Accessory' fuse and that in turn is supplied by the second set of contacts in the ignition switch.
So, given the spread of bits not working and the fact that they all share one common power source I would eliminate that before chasing grounds. If you had a broken wire on the ignition switch and the engine would run then it really does sound like it was related to this side of things. The wire is marked as R/GY on the circuit diagram - does that match what you repaired?

Can you get a multimeter to measure the voltage being supplied to the Accessory fuse to double-check the ignition switch is all OK now? The Accessory fuse should be to the right of the Keyswitch fuse. You need to measure the contact closest the Keyswitch fuse for the +12 volts supplied from the ignition switch.

The ignition switch has four wires connected to it - two Red, 1 Red/Black & 1 Red / Grey. When the switch is ON there should be zero ohms between one of the Reds and the Red/Black and the other Red and the Red / Grey. It is effectively two separate switches so pretty straight-forward to check has continuity when in the ON position - if the contacts have gone back together properly there should be zero ohms between the switched wires when ON.
The switch is shown with wire colours on page 7-8 in the Service Manual available on this site. The circuit diagram I am referencing is on page B-17.

Something for you to check first before throwing any parts at it. PM me if you like and I'm happy to help as best I can.

 

[Spanky 4867]

Thanks Rays, I found another broken wire on the key switch (wire broken but not the shielding) and now everything comes on but the bike will not turn over. The fuel pump kicks on but the bike will not start. Do these bikes have a safe mode? Do I have to disconnect the battery for awhile to reset? I'm running out of hair to pull out..LOL[confused]

 

[Iamarchangel]

Ok, some progress.

Everything means that both hands should sweep, engine and neutral light come on, and fuel pump cycles.

Check?

Is battery good? Should load test at about 200CCA.

Turning key, you should hear clicking from relay box. If not, check relays. Just shuffle them around or buy a new one, less than $10.

If relay clicking is heard, you should hear clicking from starter. If not, starter is problem. First check green wire under relay box for worn insulation. If good, double check battery (yes, I'll keep asking that, been in this game a long time.)

That's enough for now. Battery, relays, starter.

 

[Spanky 4867]

Both hands sweep, engine light but no neutral light and fuel pumps cycles, don't hear clicking from relays even after swapping them around. Battery checked out good 12.89 volts. Made sure bike is in neatral.
Don't understand the bike was starting before I fixed this other broken wire now nothing.

 

[Iamarchangel]

Try starting with clutch in, even if it is neutral.

We're checking the interlock when you do that.

 

[Spanky 4867]

Still nothing, I even tried with the kick stand up. I checked to see if I'm getting power to the relays at the red/black wire and everything is good to there. I am still not hearing the relays click.

 

[Spanky 4867]

I just checked the relays again and they are clicking

 

[Iamarchangel]

Load test battery first before anything else. Volts are different than amps. Really.

All your original problems may be fixed now but the battery is no longer able to crank.

After checking the battery, check the neutral switch. The procedure is in the manual and easier than some of the stuff you've done so far.

 

[Rays]

OK, the first thing to do is to double-check what you have removed / refitted as part of your previous fault-finding with the ignition switch. While not 100% guaranteed it is very likely you are now dealing with something you have introduced given you had no issues with starting before this exercise?

You have a relatively healthy system to have the fuel pump prime and having absolute zip from the starter is pretty straight forward to isolate.
You mention having power at the Black / Red wire so I'm guessing you measured this on the relay base for the Start relay when the starter button is pressed?

What you need to check is continuity from the relay socket (the opposite small socket, the Tan / Light Green wire - you are dealing with the outer two of the three small ones) to the battery ground. This should be zero ohms when the clutch is pulled in. The diode will make it tricky to measure the neutral switch from this point as you will need to have the meter on Diode Test rather than Ohms (the -|<- symbol) with the red multimeter lead on the relay base and the black lead on the battery ground. On my Uly that measures at 754 ohms when in neutral and open when in gear.
You mentioned earlier about the neutral light flashing for a second when you started it so that sounds like it might have a dodgy connection or switch? It has a push on connector and the switch is located behind the front pulley cover at about 1 o'clock just behind the pulley. This is really easy to test. Pull the connector off and with the ignition ON grounding this wire should turn the dash light on.
With the meter on resistance measure the connection point on the neutral switch to ground and it should be very close to zero ohms in neutral and open circuit in gear.

It seems really unlikely that you actually have a starter solenoid issue but you can verify that by momentarily bridging the the two large sockets on the START relay base. Now, be careful about doing this. When you do this the solenoid should pick up and the starter begin to crank so I am just taking about a touch so you can hear the loud clack from the solenoid.

The one obvious place where you could have crippled the starter system is via swapping the relays. If you were really unlucky you might have swapped a bad relay into the start relay position in the attempts to chase down the ignition switch issue. You might want to grab a piece of chalk and mark each relay with a 1,2,3,4 to establish their position now and cycle each one through the Start relay position.

I have added a photo of the relays for my Uly and they are going to be a different overall layout but the contacts I am referring to for the power and ground are marked here.

 

[Spanky 4867]

I checked the red/black wire on the under side of the relay block with only the key on. I will check the rest in the morning.
I really appreciate all of the help you guys are providing.

 

[Spanky 4867]

I undone my last repair the gray wire with red stripe and the bike starts just fine but no instruments, etc. If I start the bike then connect this wire everything works as it should????

 

[Iamarchangel]

The fuse/relay boxes are labeled on the lid.

Fuses: check the accessory fuse.

Relay: switch around the key switch relay.

 

[Spanky 4867]

I checked the accessory fuse and voltage and all was good. I checked the voltage from there to the instrument plug and all was good. I swapped all the relays around as well. Could all 3 relays be bad?
I put a toggle switch on the gray/red wire and took the bike for a ride to see if anything would happen. After about 10 miles the red v light came on so I went back home and the bike died when I pulled up at my shop. The fan was on but the fuel pump was not running and the bike would not turn over.
Checked the battery and it was down to 10.6 volts.

 

[Spanky 4867]

Ok I checked everything again as suggested, all of the relyas checked out good according to the test in the manual. All the fuses are good as well. Checked the tan/green wire and get the same ohm reading whether the clutch is pulled in or not. SHows .540 when key is off and goes to zero when turned on with the gray/red wire connected. The red/black wire gies to ground when the key is off and shows power when switched on. The neutral light comes on when grounded but the switchdoes not give a ohm reading either way

 

[Spanky 4867]

Made some progress today. Found tha the ground wire on the clutch switch was cut and not going to ground. I fixed the wire and the bike started with the gray/red wire connected. Could this have been my problem all along once I fixed the broken wires on the key switch? Will try and go for a ride tomorrow if the weather holds up.

 

[Iamarchangel]

Aha, interlock.

Sounds good.