Need help!!

[lowkey]

The PO said he adjusted the timing in the program never touched the static timing but I can't find where he did that in the program. If he advanced it I think it would cause this problem. Anyone know how to adjust timing in the program?

Are you using ECMspy? What version? Since I can't get a screen grab I pulled up this thread with a screen grab to explain where and how. http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?16657-Why-is-ECMspy-trying-to-kill-me Ok, first post in there, second picture shows an ECMspy window. Those are his front and rear fuel maps with 3D view on, see how the front cylinder map has a ramped profile and the second is jacked up and jagged? Check that 3D box in ECMspy and see how yours look both front and rear, then looking at that same picture, see the 3rd tab just over the visual map? That's a drop down to select front/rear cylinder timing. You can view these in 3D as well.

Lowkey, yes this has been an issue since I got this bike. The PO lied to me before I bought the bike then confessed to it after I contacted him about it. He said he has had Xopti work on the dean adams tune to try and fix this issue. I'm wondering if something is not checked right in the program. I just don't know what the original setup should be. Maybe he has the warm up enrichment on all the time, idk. I think he liked to tinker alot and he has also sent me about 5 maps he tried also has 2 different eeproms. I would change the CPS but I don't want to throw parts at it. I would think the CPS would be causing issues through out the whole range not just 0-4000 rpm. But again Idk. And when I did the intake seals I checked to make sure the tps was not damaged and cleaned, and made sure the injector cables were correct, they said rear and front. I cleaned the throttle body really well and did a proper tps reset when completed.

Ok I'm not exactly sure what you are saying on what I bolded in your quote but be VERY careful with whatever he has sent you because these need to match your ECU. "IMPORTANT: The ECM file used MUST match your ECM type. The installation of an incompatible file type could ruin your ECM. To find your ECM Type connect EcmDroid to your bike and find the ECM ID shown at the top of the home page. This 5 digit ID must match the first 5 digits of the file name you are loading (e.g. BUE2D, BUEGB)" So find out your ECM ID and get a matching ID "race map" from here http://www.buelltooth.com/maps.html This should clear up your doubts about what the PO did with these unknown maps and "advanced timing" he has performed to it. Is it absolutely perfect for your bike? NO, but it is about as safe as you are going to get your hands on without paying to get another one made custom.

As for your youtube video and the backfire, is it intake? exhaust? or both? It's hard for me to tell. Try with the engine hot, and ECMspy running live to rev the engine as you did and see what the TPS value is doing, does it snap to what you zeroed it to (around 5.1) or does it go down in value lazy like your RPM's are? Also you never said what the AFV is or if there were any codes stored or I missed them. Good luck and ask if I wasn't clear here, It's late and I'm half asleep...

 

[lowkey]

Here, I opened a 2007 race map and screen grabbed the front cylinder timing table. Red circle over the drop down menu to go from fuel front or rear and timing front or rear. The far right is to see what the map looks like in 3D view. I'm interested to see what your current map timing looks like compared to that screen grab.

 

[Simplymichaeljr]

^^^^^I think you're on to something lowkey

 

[river_rat17]

Thanks for all that info. I have version 1.12.27 on ecmspy.

This is the message he sent me back when i got the bike about the maps and eeproms,

"Don’t run the 20151201 and 20151211 maps without changing the eeprom to the 20151201 Xoptitune eeprom.
The 2010,2011, and 20151119 maps are using the stock eeprom.
The bike currently has the stock eeprom loaded with a map between the xopti and race maps. I think the problem between 2 and 4k rpm is related to the pipe, even though the xopti tune was supposed to cure it."

I took a video of the all the data being collected from ecmspy while I was checking the timing.

https://youtu.be/TWkeq526TCE

I did have to retard the timing a degree or two, seemed to help throttle response but not the main issue with the backfiring/stuttering, and that is from the exhaust mainly, sometimes through the intake. And I noticed that the tps is bouncing around, wasn't doing this before the intake seals job. The tps does not lag in returning to idle position either. Also my afv is reading 100%.

I probly put 50 miles on it yesterday And now that I did the intake seals and tightened the header up the engine is not returning to idle very quickly at all, sometimes sits at 2 grand at a stop sign then about 10 seconds later drops to idle speed and the deceleration pop is way worse than before.

 

[lowkey]

I took a video of the all the data being collected from ecmspy while I was checking the timing.

https://youtu.be/TWkeq526TCE

I did have to retard the timing a degree or two, seemed to help throttle response but not the main issue with the backfiring/stuttering, and that is from the exhaust mainly, sometimes through the intake. And I noticed that the tps is bouncing around, wasn't doing this before the intake seals job. The tps does not lag in returning to idle position either. Also my afv is reading 100%.

I probly put 50 miles on it yesterday And now that I did the intake seals and tightened the header up the engine is not returning to idle very quickly at all, sometimes sits at 2 grand at a stop sign then about 10 seconds later drops to idle speed and the deceleration pop is way worse than before.

You seem to be a competent wrench and not scared to tackle getting it right, having said that, WE (some forum members) know how to help point you in the right direction but you MUST do what is laid out.

I'm going to be blunt, **** those maps! I'm sorry but the PO screwed them up if he touched them, it's irrelevant who originally made them and how great for your bike they probably were. Just DL and flash the race map for your ECU and we'll go from there. (If you are dead set on using them put them aside and see what you can do with them later, lets get the bike working PROPERLY first.)

Your TPS is NOT set correctly, how do I know? The RPM and TPS settings are off... first physically get the TPS dialed as laid out on page 4 earlier, then follow this video exactly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33__Qkvhn4
If at this point you're not getting the "TPS to idle ratio" dialed in come back with what you are seeing. Remember the bike needs to be at operating temp to call it good and shoot for the 1050 mark. Lastly the reason you are seeing the TPS number move like on your video is the adjustment screw is right at the cusp of the next voltage reading, when set properly it will stay rock solid on what you want, to do this back it or forward it a click or two with the hex wrench

SO in this oder this is what I would like you to do:

1) flash the race map onto the ECU
2) zero out the actual TPS sensor as posted on page 4
3) Perform the TPS reset as per the video and come back to us with your results

Now for a question, what was the timing at before you retarded it a degree or two? I'd put that back to zero before performing the above 3 steps.

 

[user_deleted]

^^^^^^ awesome info above lowkey. concise....to the point....right on the money....outstanding directions. he has no baseline to work from but will if he listens to you. well done sire!

 

[Simplymichaeljr]

SO in this oder this is what I would like you to do:

1) flash the race map onto the ECU
2) zero out the actual TPS sensor as posted on page 4
3) Perform the TPS reset as per the video and come back to us with your results

FWIW I would ask if any forum members have a fuel map for an 05 xb12 using a dean Adams exhaust, and with the same, if any, modifications. If that doesn't iron out the kinks then check back in with your results and we can go from there.

I would flash a stock map or a race map from buellmods.com and then ride the bike in the closed loop around 30-30mph for 20 miles to let the ecm learn the fuelling map. You never know if the PO tried to make changes to it. .......

Even if you pull up two screens of ECMspy and compare your eeprom and one of the same from a good running bike, I imagine it would be hard and rather tedious, not to mention not worth the time compared to just reflashing the correct eeprom or at the minimum race map. That will eliminate one step. And a cheaper troubleshooting step compared to throwing parts blindly. I'm sure you're getting frustrated, but just methodically go through these processes and you will be rewarded with a nice gem of a bike AND priceless knoweledge of maintaining this soon to be rare, classic, American machinery. Good luck buddy. We're here to help--nothing like hearing a fellow bueller was able to get back in the saddle :up:

 

[river_rat17]

Okay guys, I took it all apart again, I set the timing back to where it was which is stock.
I couldnt get buelltooth to burn a map so i did it with ecmspy using the race map off of buellmods.com
Then I properly set the tps to true zero, then did a tps reset exactly as the video showed, took it for a ride to test it out and warm it up so I could set idle, which was pretty cold but still fun. Lol.
Still having the same issue but better throttle response, and it is still returning to idle slowly and sitting at 2000 rpm sometimes returning to idle and has alot of decel popping. I might try the stock map and run it on closed loop to see if that can work out the kinks. Should I flash a stock/race eeprom to the bike? Maybe replace the header gaskets? I might have made it worse when I tried tightening them. I wish I could post pics on here. I saw there was a little cut in the CPS sealant and that the coating on the black wire on the tps has pulled back about 1/4" almost looks like it pulled out of the sensor but it is pretty solidly connected.
But on the good side we r moving fwd and not back so I really appreciate your guy's help.

 

[lowkey]

I properly set the tps to true zero, then did a tps reset exactly as the video showed, took it for a ride to test it out and warm it up so I could set idle, which was pretty cold but still fun. Lol.

What were the values Idle to TPS? Once you perform a step reply with your exact findings of each (example: engine temp 150 degrees idle set to 1050 TPS reading 4.8)

Did you find that the TPS did need to be clocked at all and how much from your scribed mark? Did you inspect for wear, clean and lube it?

Still having the same issue but better throttle response, and it is still returning to idle slowly and sitting at 2000 rpm sometimes returning to idle and has alot of decel popping.

Couple things to do here and I have more if these don't work (we're only after the rev hang at this point)

If the question above is idle at 1050 I want you to bring it up to temps and back it off to 950 with hex wrench, no reset needed and ride. The other is I'm obligated to say proper adjustment of throttle cables and there routing, lube, throttle tube adjustment... and on, and on...

Basically only YOU can tell if the TPS is doing its job, if it will consistently read the same values with throttle in closed position, across the sweep to wide open then it is good. Put tape on the grip and on the hand control and mark five spots from closed to wide open, when the grip mark lines up write down the value for each now repeat the process 5 or 6 times and see if the value through ECMspy consistently hits those marks, does that make sense?

I might try the stock map and run it on closed loop to see if that can work out the kinks. Should I flash a stock/race eeprom to the bike? Maybe replace the header gaskets? I might have made it worse when I tried tightening them. I wish I could post pics on here. I saw there was a little cut in the CPS sealant and that the coating on the black wire on the tps has pulled back about 1/4" almost looks like it pulled out of the sensor but it is pretty solidly connected.
But on the good side we r moving fwd and not back so I really appreciate your guy's help.

DO nothing with the ECU and put the maps and changing things out of your mind for now... lets assume the race map is fine (which it is).

exhaust gaskets could be shot, true Lets stick with getting TPS figured out for sure and stop the rev hang before moving on to the next problem (backfires/ weak on power)

 

[midway]

I set the timing back to where it was which is stock.
I couldn't get buelltooth to burn a map so i did it with ecmspy using the race map off of buellmods.com
Then I properly set the tps to true zero, then did a tps reset.

Dude be my friend and help me out someday when I want to dabble with maps and ecmspy. If you need help with posting images let me know. Congratulations on your work so far and good luck.

 

[river_rat17]

Sry guy been sick last couple days. I did find that i did not rotate tps sensor clockwise when i installed it back on bike. I rotated it prolly a 1/16" from where it was. I cleaned and lubed before reinstalling. After I performed tps reset and warmed bike up to temp my readings were, idle-1050, temp-150,tps-4.4 degrees. I will be performing the test on tps tomorrow involving the 5 points and lowering idle to 950. Will get back to u then.

 

[lowkey]

I did find that i did not rotate tps sensor clockwise when i installed it back on bike. I rotated it prolly a 1/16" from where it was. I cleaned and lubed before reinstalling. After I performed tps reset and warmed bike up to temp my readings were, idle-1050, temp-150,tps-4.4 degrees. I will be performing the test on tps tomorrow involving the 5 points and lowering idle to 950. Will get back to u then.

From your values it looks like you should be fine now, are you still experiencing the rev hang at these TPS/idle settings? I don't think it is necessary to go back in and mess with the clock of the TPS but it is up to you. The goal of doing that is the tabs inside wear against the tabs on the TB and so they might not be seated against each other. I just did it on my bike today. I just set it half way between the scratch I made and full clockwise the bolts would allow. I then zeroed the TPS through ECMspy, doing those things while the idle adjuster was backed completely off allowing the butterfly to be fully closed. I then set the idle adjust for 5.1 and brought the bike up to temperature. Final settings were 5.5 TPS at 1000-1050rpm.

What is the TPS test involving 5 points? Lowering to 950rpm is only to see if it will cure rev hang if you are experiencing it at 1050rpm.

 

[river_rat17]

Yes I believe I got the tps set correctly now also. When I rode it yesterday it didn't seem to hang up but still returns to idle slowly. The clocking test is what I ment by the 5 point test to see if the tps hit the same marks everytime.
I can tell a big difference in running temp with the race map installed now. The cooling fan hardly ever kicks on now when I turn the bike off and the engine isn't burning my croch. Lol. The throttle response has gotten even better and the idle is smoother.

 

[lowkey]

When I rode it yesterday it didn't seem to hang up but still returns to idle slowly. The clocking test is what I ment by the 5 point test to see if the tps hit the same marks everytime.

OK gotcha, well again don't get to caught up on it, you can eyeball a smooth ramp up and down if you are connected to ECMspy live and just monitor the seep while twisting the throttle tube. Bike doesn't need to be running. Just watch that it's not jumping in value compared to rolling on or off the throttle and that it reads the same closed value and 100%WOT every time.

I can tell a big difference in running temp with the race map installed now. The cooling fan hardly ever kicks on now when I turn the bike off and the engine isn't burning my croch. Lol. The throttle response has gotten even better and the idle is smoother.

The fan logic for the race map is not the same as the stock map, which makes the fan come on much less. So it sounds like it is now running good? Is it still backfiring? Not pops on deceleration, that is OK. Sounds like you now just need to take it for a few extended rides so the ECU can adjust accordingly.

 

[river_rat17]

Tps seems to be solid. I am still having the the missfire/power loss and the popping on the deceleration, it has gotten better over time of just driving it but is still pretty annoying. Took it on a ride yesterday again and it seemed to run really well then I stopped and got a bite to eat then when I took off and stopped at a light it died on me for the first time ever, started right back up but didn't seem like it wanted to idle very well. Was burping alot. After it warmed back up it got better.

 

[lowkey]

Tps seems to be solid. I am still having the the missfire/power loss and the popping on the deceleration, it has gotten better over time of just driving it but is still pretty annoying. Took it on a ride yesterday again and it seemed to run really well then I stopped and got a bite to eat then when I took off and stopped at a light it died on me for the first time ever, started right back up but didn't seem like it wanted to idle very well. Was burping alot. After it warmed back up it got better.

1.) So where in the RPM's is this going on? Can you elaborate what all is going on especially what is pointing you to misfire? Slow to climb in RPM's in a certain area?

2.) Do you think the idle RPM's are just a little to low to keep the bike running? Like when on first start up does it just run and idle or to you have to watch it and blip the throttle to keep it running?

Maybe next step is to swap the 02 out. Most everyone states a rich condition when the 02 goes but I experienced a lean condition when mine went bad.

Has your AFV gone off of the 100% setting? By how much? Also you didn't mention if RPM's are coming down properly now or not.

Does it sound like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaM-bz2vJIA

 

[river_rat17]

The missfire/power loss happens between 0-4000 rpm still. It has gotten better but when I pull off from a stop I can feel when I have passed that point and all the power comes back. I still have to ride in 4th gear on Highway in able to have power pulling up a hill or even fighting the wind. And at cruising speed I can here the bike missing also. It's a steady pop around 4500 rpm. I can't feel this either just hear it if I listen closley. I may just be hearing stuff also. Lol

For the idle issue, whenever I first start the bike it kinda drops in rpms every 15 seconds then ramps back up to idle speed. I never really had to blip it to keep it running till the other day after It died on me. I'll try to set the rpms higher and see if the bike still drops down in rpm.

And the last checked the AFV it was still at 100% and the rpms never stuck on me again since the last tps alignment and reset. I believe the sticking was do to improper tps setting.

And yes the bike decele pops/backfires like the video. I've been paying attention and it usually happens the most between 2-3000 rpms.

 

[river_rat17]

Okay guys. I rolled the engine today to change 02 sensor and header gaskets. Anything else I should do while I'm this far.

And no big deal but I figured the engine would have rolled out till it hit the front tire. It stops about 2 inches away. Is that because of the rear isolator bolt and rear swing arm are fighting each other?

 

[Silverrider]

Okay guys. I rolled the engine today to change 02 sensor and header gaskets. Anything else I should do while I'm this far.

And no big deal but I figured the engine would have rolled out till it hit the front tire. It stops about 2 inches away. Is that because of the rear isolator bolt and rear swing arm are fighting each other?

plugs,pvc,rocker box gaskets, things to check since it is rotated, how many miles are on the bike?

 

[river_rat17]

Around 13000 miles.