STILL DOESNT RUN! XB9 PUZZLE
- Thread starter July4
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Situation changed!
I have a new (Used) ECM which now lights the "check engine" for about 5 seconds when the key is turned on (like it should). The original ECM, and another borrowed ECM did not do this. I also now have 5V at all the sensors, (red/w wire). With the original ECM, voltage was low, 2.7V or so. The "new" ECM also allows me to run codes unlike the original, (probably fried the original unit with the short in the picture). So when I pull the codes I get 44, which means BAS issue. The red wire supplies 5V to the BAS (and all other sensors now), the ground wire checks out good to ground with ohm meter and passes all wiggle tests. The light green wire also shows good resistance with the ohm meter with no shorting to ground including wiggling the harness during the test. This wire goes directly to the black? connector (from memory) and seems fine. I'm guessing this is the wire that provides BAS feedback to the ECM, so I was particularly thorough checking it since this, (to me) it was likely giving a false signal to the ECM that the bike was on it's side. If I don't find the answer soon it WILL be on it's side with me jumping up and down on it!! [mad]
So, I'm stumped. I've made progress in that the ECM seems to actually work, but I'm concerned that I may not have found the thing that killed the original ECM. I've stripped back the wires to the black ECM connector again to double check I have not missed any other chafed wires; not that I'm seeing a problem in my testing.
I know this does not answer what you wanted me to test, but the new ECM is getting different readings from the post you were responding to. I can try to check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure the grey wire is a full 12 V now with the new ECM. The fuel pump still does not run when key is switched on. (No fuel in tank yet).
I have a new (Used) ECM which now lights the "check engine" for about 5 seconds when the key is turned on (like it should). The original ECM, and another borrowed ECM did not do this. I also now have 5V at all the sensors, (red/w wire). With the original ECM, voltage was low, 2.7V or so. The "new" ECM also allows me to run codes unlike the original, (probably fried the original unit with the short in the picture). So when I pull the codes I get 44, which means BAS issue. The red wire supplies 5V to the BAS (and all other sensors now), the ground wire checks out good to ground with ohm meter and passes all wiggle tests. The light green wire also shows good resistance with the ohm meter with no shorting to ground including wiggling the harness during the test. This wire goes directly to the black? connector (from memory) and seems fine. I'm guessing this is the wire that provides BAS feedback to the ECM, so I was particularly thorough checking it since this, (to me) it was likely giving a false signal to the ECM that the bike was on it's side. If I don't find the answer soon it WILL be on it's side with me jumping up and down on it!! [mad]
So, I'm stumped. I've made progress in that the ECM seems to actually work, but I'm concerned that I may not have found the thing that killed the original ECM. I've stripped back the wires to the black ECM connector again to double check I have not missed any other chafed wires; not that I'm seeing a problem in my testing.
I know this does not answer what you wanted me to test, but the new ECM is getting different readings from the post you were responding to. I can try to check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure the grey wire is a full 12 V now with the new ECM. The fuel pump still does not run when key is switched on. (No fuel in tank yet).
thrstrmech
Well-known member
I'll do some reading after work, something isn't getting a signal through...bad BAS and ignition switch or both[confused]
Yea, weird. If it can run without the BAS, then the fuel pump should run when the key comes on right? But it does not. If the ignition sw. is messed up I wouldn't get power to the relays etc. (I did check the Ig sw. and did wiggle test as well). Remember, with the new ECM I'm getting mostly normal readings, 5V on the sensor wire etc. but no voltage to the fuel pump. More specifically, the brown/y wire is not being grounded by the ecm. I believe the gray wire is still providing 12V. I will double check that when I get home.
I think the ecm is getting some signal that is making it react as though the bike is tipped over or some similar situation where it cuts ignition and fuel. The neutral light works fine, and that is the only other legit reason for the ECM to cut power. i.e. kick stand down, in gear and clutch out. But I do not see a switch for the side stand? Doesn't a 2005 have one? Could the PO have clipped the wire, removed the switch and just crossed the wire? If my year doesn't have such a wire/switch I don't want to go looking for it, but could that be the answer? a botched splice job? Again grasping for straws here. I just want to ride!
I think the ecm is getting some signal that is making it react as though the bike is tipped over or some similar situation where it cuts ignition and fuel. The neutral light works fine, and that is the only other legit reason for the ECM to cut power. i.e. kick stand down, in gear and clutch out. But I do not see a switch for the side stand? Doesn't a 2005 have one? Could the PO have clipped the wire, removed the switch and just crossed the wire? If my year doesn't have such a wire/switch I don't want to go looking for it, but could that be the answer? a botched splice job? Again grasping for straws here. I just want to ride!
I haven't tried changing that but my issue is the fuel pump not running. None of the sensors seem to be drawing the circuit down like they would if one was bad so I'm guessing that wouldn't be the problem. But, good to know where I can get one should the need arise. Thanks.
Holy **** it's been a while! Took it to Harley of Glendale who confirmed the ECM was the culprit. Ordered a new one and paid an absurd $45 to get it overnighted. (Do they really need to make a big profit on that!!) Got a call late Saturday to pick it up. I had about 30 min. until wife was supposed to be home and we were going somewhere to listen to music. So of course I don't want to wait till Tuesday and pick it up, (rememberthe $45). My kid takes me down there, 15 min, I tell the guy to have it ready and of course he doesn't. Takes his boss like 5 minutes to put my visa in and take my money. Slow computer, slow typing, (Really, 2 fingers in 2015!) Then they have to go bring my bike around, another 5 ****ing minutes. It won't idle and dies 3 X then won't start because my new battery that I had made sure was charge prior to them taking it was dead. GRR. Went home without it and got chewed by the wife for being late.
Round 2:
Wife and I are again going to hollywood bowl and they call at the end of the day to say it is ready and that they have test driven it several miles and it is ready. Put on leathers again, beg wife to drop me there and I will meet her in the shuttle parking lot. They start the bike and it dies, 3 X. The service writer was really apologetic and promises he will have it fixed at no charge. I get a call after a couple of days saying it is the idle screw assy. WHF? really? they say they put it on the computer started it and watched the idle die. Ok. ordered parts and then after installing them they tell me that the real problem is that it doesn't have enough fuel pressure. Now that I agree with. They tell me the fuel pressure regulator assy was separated from the pump when they disassembled it. Ok so it's a ****ty design that has 3 o rings that are supposed to seal it, but they can't if it separates. Fine. They want me to order a new $$380 pump assy. I go down there again and convince them to order a new style regulator and hoses. They delay ordering from that thursday until the following Monday.
I get a call saying the hoses are too long and they will have to go to an auto parts store to get pre-formed hoses. Again, WTF. I gotta see this. So I drive down there and the service writer is off and they can't/won't find the technician. They insist it just aint going to work with these parts and I must buy a new pump assy. I'd like to see the parts while I'm here. They argue that wont do any good, the Tech has been there for 30 years. Do I know better? I finally see the parts and sure enough the regulator housing they got will only fit on a different, later model pump, They didn't even get the regulator itself, just a new housing. The guy I'm talking to settles down a bit and starts being nice again after I patiently explain that we just need a new pump which is probably a common automotive pump just like the original is a Walbro from a lowly v6 mustang. About $40 bucks at Autozone.
So does anyone know what the new version of this pump says on it or what vehicle it is from? That is the $380 question. HELLLP!!
Round 2:
Wife and I are again going to hollywood bowl and they call at the end of the day to say it is ready and that they have test driven it several miles and it is ready. Put on leathers again, beg wife to drop me there and I will meet her in the shuttle parking lot. They start the bike and it dies, 3 X. The service writer was really apologetic and promises he will have it fixed at no charge. I get a call after a couple of days saying it is the idle screw assy. WHF? really? they say they put it on the computer started it and watched the idle die. Ok. ordered parts and then after installing them they tell me that the real problem is that it doesn't have enough fuel pressure. Now that I agree with. They tell me the fuel pressure regulator assy was separated from the pump when they disassembled it. Ok so it's a ****ty design that has 3 o rings that are supposed to seal it, but they can't if it separates. Fine. They want me to order a new $$380 pump assy. I go down there again and convince them to order a new style regulator and hoses. They delay ordering from that thursday until the following Monday.
I get a call saying the hoses are too long and they will have to go to an auto parts store to get pre-formed hoses. Again, WTF. I gotta see this. So I drive down there and the service writer is off and they can't/won't find the technician. They insist it just aint going to work with these parts and I must buy a new pump assy. I'd like to see the parts while I'm here. They argue that wont do any good, the Tech has been there for 30 years. Do I know better? I finally see the parts and sure enough the regulator housing they got will only fit on a different, later model pump, They didn't even get the regulator itself, just a new housing. The guy I'm talking to settles down a bit and starts being nice again after I patiently explain that we just need a new pump which is probably a common automotive pump just like the original is a Walbro from a lowly v6 mustang. About $40 bucks at Autozone.
So does anyone know what the new version of this pump says on it or what vehicle it is from? That is the $380 question. HELLLP!!
I just realized when I was there I was trying to put the regulator over the pump which is wrong. The pump connects to the hose which goes to the "top" of the regulator and the large cavity at the other end of the regulator goes over the filter. My question is what fills the gap? a piece of fuel line?
Chicknstripn
Well-known member
I don't know the answer to the fuel pump question but I do believe you need to call corporate HD and pitch a fit! What you're going through is ridiculous!
I was a little flustered by the time I got them to show me the parts. Plus they were actually sitting on the page in the manual that shows the fuel pump. If I was calmer I could have seen that I was doing it wrong. The service writer was not the guy that I'd been working with and he kept saying the parts won't fit no matter how long we look at them. Now I feel like an ass hat for not turning the regulator around. But I still have the issue of what fits between the regulator and the filter! If I can figure that out, I think the long term technition may learn something new tomorrow. This is where I need help guys.
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downloaded the manual. There was a mid year change in the fuel pump/regulator assy.
early model 2005
late model 2005
early model 2005
late model 2005
this just happen to be in the new posts list.
looks like a good read.
http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?38173-DIY-Fuel-pump-fix-Cheaper-than-replacement-from-HD
looks like a good read.
http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?38173-DIY-Fuel-pump-fix-Cheaper-than-replacement-from-HD
Chicken, Your thread link shows what I'm missing! It just looks like a 1/2" piece of hose slipped over the filter, then the regulator slips over that. If the current hose on the pump assembly fits, they can use a piece of that. Seems simple, just a little puzzle with all the pieces present. Just needs someone to arrange the pieces correctly. Seems my thread title is so appropriate now.
Chicknstripn
Well-known member
How the hell did I post that link in the wrong spot? That's what I get for sneaking in some buell time while trying to work.
Man, you shouldn't be the one showing the techs how to do their job. That's such BS. You might as well raise hell and ask for your bike back. AND NO CHARGE!
Man, you shouldn't be the one showing the techs how to do their job. That's such BS. You might as well raise hell and ask for your bike back. AND NO CHARGE!
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Chicknstripn
Well-known member
July4 - I hope you don't feel like we are attacking or criticizing you. I feel really bad for you and the situation you are in. You put your trust in a supposedly professional establishment. HD is a multi billion dollar busness that should NOT be taking advantage of you the way they are. I understand one shop doesn't represent the entire entity, however, the techs/mechanics at that dealer should take a bit more pride in what they do and what they represent. They shouldn't be throwing their lack of knowledge and talent on your shoulders. It's obvious the mechanics there are in over their heads. All the BS they are putting you through is absolutely unprofessional and they should be ashamed of themselves. That shop should be appologizing to you and kissing your ass for everything they have put you through.
I hope something good finaly comes out of this situation because, honestly, what you are going through is exactly why 99% of us that own Buells avoid HD service deparents like the Black Plague. This situation is also a major contributing factor for Buells having a reputation as being unreliable money pits.
Good luck man. We're all gunning for ya and here to help you out however we can.
I hope something good finaly comes out of this situation because, honestly, what you are going through is exactly why 99% of us that own Buells avoid HD service deparents like the Black Plague. This situation is also a major contributing factor for Buells having a reputation as being unreliable money pits.
Good luck man. We're all gunning for ya and here to help you out however we can.
Yes, this really is turning into a real cluster f%*&*. I've tried to type in everything that happened, but it is a bit much. I have to say it started out ok and Rich, my service writer did his best; and they almost had it ready in about a week. But when I went twice to pick it up without success and they said they would fix it without charge at that point. So that is where things fell apart. They really had a hard time diagnosing what was wrong. I told them the bike ran perfectly up to the moment it stopped, and the only thing I had messed with was the fuel pump. So you would think they would have checked that first, unless they did not believe me. I think I should have had some credibility with them for getting the main diagnosis correct!
So, I have concluded that the regulator housing goes over a short (1/2") piece of hose on the fuel filter. Some of you must have taken this apart and seen it. I just want to know if what I'm seeing in the picture is a piece of hose or some special sized rubber bushing? anyone know?
So, I have concluded that the regulator housing goes over a short (1/2") piece of hose on the fuel filter. Some of you must have taken this apart and seen it. I just want to know if what I'm seeing in the picture is a piece of hose or some special sized rubber bushing? anyone know?
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m589/snrusnak/CAM00196_zps69e20f38.jpg
Here is the picture of the filter with the little bushing or piece of hose. Does anyone know if this is just hose?
Sorry I can't seem to post the pic directly, you have to click the link.
Here is the picture of the filter with the little bushing or piece of hose. Does anyone know if this is just hose?
Sorry I can't seem to post the pic directly, you have to click the link.
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Mrlogix, thanks, you are right on the money with that link, but Chickenstrips sent it first. I cut and pasted one of the pics from this into an email to my service writer with an explanation of how it all fits together. So as rchuff pointed out, all this is online if they really don't know how to do it. I think the technicians are indoctrinated into replacing assemblies and they really don't look at how the assemblies work so they are lost in these situations. When my bike is out of there they will just blame the bike and the stupid guy that owns it.
If they had been sent to training on a regular basis, this would be a non- incident. My dad said it's easy to be a parts replacer but hard to be a real mechanic, which one are you? I think that's why I always go back to German cars, those technicians are really trained! They logically diagnose and go right to the problem. I really hate paying people to learn on my dime.
If they had been sent to training on a regular basis, this would be a non- incident. My dad said it's easy to be a parts replacer but hard to be a real mechanic, which one are you? I think that's why I always go back to German cars, those technicians are really trained! They logically diagnose and go right to the problem. I really hate paying people to learn on my dime.
Chicknstripn
Well-known member
Here's another thread with good pics.
Also check the service manual. I'm pretty sure there's a fuel pump break down in there somewhere.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/632890.html
Also check the service manual. I'm pretty sure there's a fuel pump break down in there somewhere.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/632890.html
