2-stroke oil experiment.

[go cytocis]

Guys, I've been following this thread, perhaps misled by the word "experiment" in the title, expecting to read something more than the anecdotes, conjectures, & false assumptions posted so far.

All kinds of unverified claims have been made about the engine running smoother, cooler & making more power but I've yet to read or see anything to substantiate any of them.

Is this really the kind of evidence we're accepting as proof around here? So far there's been nothing posted that would convince me to incur the added expense, hassle, & risk of dumping oil into my fuel tank.

I'm happy to be proven otherwise, I'm just not seeing it so far!

 

[Cooter]

That's very true GotoCytosis but I don't think any of us have access to OE testing protocols.
Back to back dyno pulls may be possible to prove HP, but I doubt it's a big enough difference to log, and seat-of-the-pants dynos are notoriously bad. Many, many 'miracle cures' have made many, many people rich as-seen-on-TV.

Besides, a legit NVH test is harder than you think!

I don't think there's too much "risk" though. 2-stroke oil is meant to be burned in a piston engine no matter the strokes, and in the tiny quantities stated it hasn't proven to be a problem (yet). I have seen engines gobble massive quantities of bad stuff and live just fine. I highly doubt a little oil will make a difference.

I'll test "un-proven" 2-stroke oil at 600PPM before I'll believe the .gov 20%+ Ethanol is good for your Buell. It was never a consideration when they were designed.

 

[eppt]

I'm with cooter on this. If you take it upon yourself to mix oil with you gasoline in hopes that it lubes the fuel pump, quiets down excess motor noise or what ever your wish is so be it. I don't believe gloomshadow ever claimed this would be a scientific experiments. He was just trying to help some south american boy keep their buell's on the road any way possible. After I herd about this I started searching the web for more info on the subject. Wholey hell it's everywhere, in classic car forums, diesel forums and the list goes on and on. I believe this is a you have to try it and make your own conclusion as to if there is any difference at all. Thanks gloomshadow for bringing this thread to life as I am trying it now with my conclusion to come

 

[Gloomshadow]

I was actually talking about this at the bar with a super old school Hod Rodder and sport rider.. I told him about it and asked why it felt better and he said this. "Air cooled motors run a lot of gap between the rings and the cylinder walls, that 2-cycle goes in there and burns in a way that makes a better seal, cutting down on the energy that's bled down into the crankcase... plus added lube on the walls of the cylinder doesn't hurt either.". Then I asked him if it would show up on a dyno and his response was " It should" ... I asked him how much and he said "No telling.." Then I asked him if it was a crazy idea to run it in the first place and he said "Fuck no.. what you are doing makes perfect sense"

 

[Gloomshadow]

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-oil-91206/

here is a good discussion on it... its making sense these guys at least.

 

[06XB12SS_LOVER]

The more I read this thread the more I want to try this in my 1125cr. I think I'm going to take the plunge this evening.

 

[Gloomshadow]

go ahead.. in the case of water cooled motors I would use the oil recommended by the LS1 guys.. that oil they are using is right for liquid cooled engines. ... and most of them said that it took a few tanks for it to really kick in and they were talking about big automobile fuel tanks.

 

[s0dhi]

Gloomshadow:
Are you sticking with TC-W3 2-stroke oils?

The anecdotal evidence is compelling. Yesterday, I tried a 1.75oz of ashless 2-stroke oil in a full tank of Shell 91 V-Power and there was a subtle difference. Roll-on and pull from 3500rpm on-wards was improved. I've some Amsoil HP Marine oil on order to continue the experimentation.

 

[Gloomshadow]

No, I am using Homelite premium synthetic for use in air cooled 2-stroke, small displacement garden tools. Its dark red and pasty. Its almost like liquid chalk dust. hahah.. we think it may burn cleaner in a air cooled combustion chamber.

 

[Tbone]

I also thank you Gloomshadow for posting this. Thanks for confirming on the 1203 needs a little more oil, as I have been doing so for over 2 years now. I have been running MMO for so long now, everything seems to stay so clean that it is difficult for me to switch. Post back in a few thousand miles and how everything is holding up, as I am sure you are just as hooked as I am. I like not having to clean my throttle body though. Also will definitely look at switching to 20w-60, do you know if Mobil-1 has this weight? will try to find it? Thanks again and ride on safely. For the Science, only evidence I can provide is wheelability, gas mileage, sparkplug inspections, startability, oil cleanliness, amount of heat in rush hour, top end that makes you say Holy F#@k, that was 130 mph quick as a flip of the throttle. When I switch to 20W-60 oil I might mix MMO in the crankcase? looking at how my wife's car holds up first?

 

[Gloomshadow]

Thanks man,
I wouldn't even bother with MMO in the crankcase, its good like it is. .. besides, you may want a "baseline" experience so if you add MMO later, you will know what changed.

Well, when I was giving the low down to my Hot Rod buddy his comment was "The proof would be in the added gas economy, if the economy goes up that means that efficiency went up.. when efficiency goes up, that only can happen when things are working better, and never when things start working WORSE".. after he said that I could not find any fault in his reasoning.

so far, I have only seen 20w-60 in Redline and Amsoil.. you can always order it if you have to.

 

[BuellyBagger]

so has fuel economy increased? It doesn't take much to make a marked difference in fuel consumption in these bikes. For example my bike was positively 50-55 mpg no matter what before my ebr ecm and directly after the swap 40-45.owned the bike 3 years before and 3 years after ecm change and this mpg held true. I get gas the same place every time I go for a ride.(excluding maybe 5 times the entire time I've owned the bike which included a 99 octane fill up which was a 60+mpg tank and the bike ran awesome! ) So if this tiny (relative)fuel map change makes an obvious and constant 10mpg shift then, I would think yoru 2 cycle improvements would be obvious after 1 or 2 tanks of fuel. Especially since you're claiming so many other gains.

 

[Gloomshadow]

Im not the one that is making these claims, I am just reading about the claims other guys who have tested it and checking it out. Read the link to the hot rod forums I posted up top.

At another forum a guy who ran it in his Harley claim almost a 10% increase in fuel economy.. I cant back his results up though. Im just running it and enjoying it.

 

[Cooter]

Not to hi-jack…
but I'm only getting 35MPG in my CR? (Manually calculated, EBR ECM, Barkers) Normal? Do I drive like an A-hole?? I'm going to start using the oil and see what the diff is.

 

[Cooter]

I had too

 

[buellbradski]

You very well may drive like a ahole!
But the Xb12's and9's get better gas millage..Around 50mpg

 

[Gloomshadow]

Ok I took the 1203 out today. I was real hot today so I did some street and some highway at 80mph. The bike sat for maybe 4 - 5 days and when I went to start it, it just gave a backfire, it did that twice, third time fired right up and ran normally for the rest of the day. Started normally also.

It was throwing a lot of heat off the right side like 1203s always do (more so than the 984).. it started to get deceleration popping as always. (my 984 no longer has this) ... other than this, it ran beautifully .. nice top end and everything.

on the 1203 I am at about 2oz per tank.. the hot rod guys say that sometimes it takes a few tanks to clear things up. Ill just keep it like it is for the next few tanks and see what happens.

 

[bwylie_99]

I'm trying this as well. Using mmo and I'm pretty sure the cr is now running hotter. Is this normal?

 

[06XB12SS_LOVER]

I just bought the Pennzoil Marine TC-W3 Preamium Plus 2 -Cycle which was recommend by the hot rod guys for liquid cooled engines. I have to go get gas tomorrow and I'll throw in 1 oz. in my 1125CR and let everyone know how that goes. I'm not gonna lie I'm a little scared to try anything in the gas i don't want anything bad to come up or happen.[smirk]

 

[Gloomshadow]

12SS, what you are doing is nothing in terms of risk. a 1125 will suck down 1 oz of that like nothing.. that may not even be enough to do anything.

99 ... MMO isn't 2-cycle, guys burn MMO all the time. Im not sure what that would do but I don't think it would cause any additional heat. Its just sewing machine oil, naphtha and wintergreen oil. Some guys use it but I don't think it would as good as 2-cycle oil. 2-cycle exists for the sole purpose of being burned in fuel. MMO was a used as carbon deposit solvent.