Engine build

[Cooter]

Lightening that steel sprocket is a great idea and better than the aluminum option IMO. I guess that means my suggestion for lightening the output shaft sprocket could be done by yourself as well

 

[mike lowary]

I’m actually running a baker 26 tooth aluminum output shaft sprocket

 

[mike lowary]

You've inspired me to re-plate the fasteners and steel brackets on my S1 project.

You mean the one with the Hammer top end?

 

[Cooter]

Oh now THAT's a funny pun, well done sir. I bequeath you one crispy internet point.


:applause:

 

[mike lowary]

Thank you, thank you. I was afraid nobody would get the joke. Looks like I nailed it.......

 

[34nineteen]

Thank you, thank you. I was afraid nobody would get the joke. Looks like I nailed it.......

KA-POW!

mike lowary FTW!!!

twice!

 

[Cooter]

I'm not board here




Deep levels, man..... deep.




:angel:

 

[34nineteen]

Deep levels, man..... deep.

 

[mike lowary]

Its decision making day. Went with a brand new 08 crank off the shelf. Doing a full balance, (yes im having a brand new crank with zero miles balanced), line lapping the cases, all new bearings, boring cases for 1170 and welding the crank pin.

 

[Cooter]

Might-as-well

 

[mike lowary]

I want the capability to rev to 8k rpms. I probably wont rev that high regularly but we will see if theres power to be had up there when its dyno time. I definitely think balancing would be helpful with turning those rpms.

 

[34nineteen]

I want the capability to rev to 8k rpms. I probably wont rev that high regularly but we will see if theres power to be had up there when its dyno time. I definitely think balancing would be helpful with turning those rpms.

I'd be curious to hear how off balance and true it is. I think in the Dark Horse video they show crank that is out of true and balance.

Dont forget to have them balance the rods, pistons, wrist pins (circlips and rings too LOL :black_eyed


If you do it right, it ought to be outright AMAZING! Now you need CoOter to do a custom tune for you.

 

[mike lowary]

Ive been tuning mine for several years now. But i didnt know Cooter was a tuner. This true Coot?

 

[outthere]

Balance factor is figured in dependent on RPMs. They don't balance, let's say 100% Norton race bike was 74%.

 

[mike lowary]

Balance factor is figured in dependent on RPMs. They don't balance, let's say 100% Norton race bike was 74%.

Very interesting. So you're saying they balance to a certain rpm or rpm range?

 

[Cooter]

Ive been tuning mine for several years now. But i didnt know Cooter was a tuner. This true Coot?

Nope, He's having fun I'm just a tinkerer-er. I put in WB sensors in the XB for datalogging and use ECMDroid to load programs/ datalog. I put those datalogs into Mega Log Viewer and MLV then just spits out the correction map to re-load. It's great for any mid throttle street ability tuning to get the OL fuel map just right. I still feel honest WOT tuning should be done on a dyno.

Very interesting. So you're saying they balance to a certain rpm or rpm range?

The machine shop should be able to balance at whatever RPM you specify and that will 'balance' a large range of RPM. I don't know of a crank that can have a zero balance at every RPM because of the off-set weight of the rod journal(s). They try very hard to get close and that why weight is removed or added to the crankshaft at the same circumference as the rod journals because the weight spinning slower (nearer the center) inputs less centrifugal forces, than the same weight at a location farther from the spinning centerline. Faster RPM = a wider gap of those forces. Add the weight of the large end of the spinning rods and you can feel that affect yourself simply by revving your Buell through the RPM range slowly, it's quite dramatic on a V-twin!

i.e. Wheels/tires are the same. You can zero balance them at 0 RPM, or dynamic balance them at speed. Most modern wheel balancers spin at 300RPM (about 60MPH), and that same wheel/tire that zero balances at speed usually won't zero statically. Wheels/tires are far less important to get right though, they spin slower, have suspension, and they're usually lighter.

 

[mike lowary]

Nope, He's having fun I'm just a tinkerer-er. I put in WB sensors in the XB for datalogging and use ECMDroid to load programs/ datalog. I put those datalogs into Mega Log Viewer and MLV then just spits out the correction map to re-load. It's great for any mid throttle street ability tuning to get the OL fuel map just right. I still feel honest WOT tuning should be done on a dyno.



Without Googling.... I don't know of a crank that has a zero balance at every RPM. They try very hard to get close and that why weight is removed or added to the crankshaft at the same circumference as the rod journals because the weight spinning slower (nearer the center) inputs less centrifugal forces, than the same weight at a location farther from the spinning centerline. Faster RPM = a wider gap of those forces. Add the weight of the large end of the spinning rods and you can feel that affect yourself simply by revving your Buell through the RPM range slowly, it's quite dramatic on a V-twin!

i.e. Wheels/tires are the same. You can zero balance them at 0 RPM, or dynamic balance them at speed. Most modern wheel balancers spin at 300RPM (about 60MPH), and that same wheel/tire that zero balances at speed usually won't zero statically. Wheels/tires are far less important to get right though, they spin slower, have suspension, and they're usually lighter.

I tune the exact same way but with ecmspy. and thanks for the explanation. Makes since

 

[Cooter]

I wish I knew ECMSpy better:upset: It has much more functionality but confuses me. It really is the only way to build a map for such a custom engine though. ECMDroid is NOT the tool for that, lol.

I'll chat tuning theory all day But the actual building of a tune with ECMSpy is beyond me. I do have some free time though:angel: Maybe you can help?

 

[34nineteen]

I have feeling this is going to be the big stumbling point, unless you find someone who you trust who knows tuning... especially with an animal like you're building. All its going to take one simple error which could cascade into mass carnage.

Isnt that what happened to the guy who built the turbo Buell? A loose clamp, eventually led to a rod making a cameo out of the bottom of the case? I believe I saw that on a youtube video.

PS. Cooter doesnt know what he's talking about. See other thread for details... :black_eyed:

PPS. Cooter knows more about stuff than me, though.

 

[mike lowary]

I have feeling this is going to be the big stumbling point, unless you find someone who you trust who knows tuning... especially with an animal like you're building. All its going to take one simple error which could cascade into mass carnage.

Isnt that what happened to the guy who built the turbo Buell? A loose clamp, eventually led to a rod making a cameo out of the bottom of the case? I believe I saw that on a youtube video.

PS. Cooter doesnt know what he's talking about. See other thread for details... :black_eyed:

PPS. Cooter knows more about stuff than me, though.

This is exactly why I built the engine like I did. Things that get you in trouble with tuning are high compression, high lift cams and huge cubes. My cams have barely more lift than stock, my compression is 10.5:1 and my cc’s are under 1200. Buell made the stock components to work with these parameters. I kept the build as close to these parameters as I could for tuning purposes. I’m very confident in my tuning. I’ve made maps for several people and have shown people how to use the tuning software ( I got you cooter). I’m using off the shelf Buell parts. 12 throttle body, 12 header, injectors, fuel pump all bone stock Buell. This Should be pretty routine. I’ll have a map pre made for the initial break in run then I’ll have a dyno session. I’ll be tuning my bike on the dyno.