Got a ticket... Any advice?

[09BuellXB9SX]

So I got a ticket yesterday... Thank goodness not for speeding but for crossing the double yellow lines to pass a vehicle on a back country road. Cop was right behind me and i didn't even know, car in front was going ridiculously slow, no oncoming traffic... Gotta see the judge in about a month. I now know its considered reckless driving in the state of VA I have 2 speeding tickets and 1 failure to obey a posted sign on my entire record. None on my motorcycle. Anyone have a similar experience and how did it turn out?

On a brighter note... here are some pics of my new exhaust!!

 

[Shawns]

Who made it? It looks sooooooo much better that the stock.

 

[ljm]

Here is my experience, but probably worth what you pay for it.

I've been stopped for two high dollar, high point tickets over recent years. On the first one, I plead guilty. It was in the context of a bunch of whiners in court making excuses, begging, pleading and generally making asses of themselves. When it was my turn, I said I plead guilty. Just wasn't paying attention and drove too fast. Judge looked relieved, fined me $50, 2 points (vs. 900 and 6) I think just because he was tired of the other people and their lawyers.

The second time involved three family members stopped together all over 20 over the posted limit. We postponed as many times as they would allow, because it increases the chance that the Trooper will miss the court date, get transferred, show up (we asked for the earliers appt. in the morning). It worked. The trooper showed up 20 minutes late, arrived just as we were leaving. All tickets dismissed.

 

[AlanS]

You didn't check your rear-view and/or turn your head to look beside/behind you before you pulled out to pass? Or you saw the car behind you but didn't realize it was a cop? Either way, might be worthwhile to work on your decision-making process and gather a little more information--or more fully analyze it--before you make optional moves. The way folks drive around here, it wouldn't be unusual for someone behind you to get fed up before you do, and pull out to pass both of you at a high rate of speed.

If the tickets are far enough removed in time from one another, there might not be any cumulative effect. But if they've all occurred within a relatively short period of one another, it could lead to a bigger fine. Find out from your DMV what the time-frames are for such in Va.

Moving violations in Ca. go against the driver, regardless of which car/truck/bike he/she is riding at the time the ticket's issued. Va could be the same.

The legal ramifications in this instance might be the least of your worries, in reality. To me, you have too many moving violations. Even if they've occurred over the course of five years. You seem like you're either a little reckless…or very unlucky. I'm not saying this to be self-righteous. I'm worried about you. Or more particularly, your decision-making processes. Get mad, ok. But then…think about what I'm saying.

For what it's worth...

Alan

 

[09BuellXB9SX]

Totally appreciate your responses, no way I would be mad at you for your opinion, im a big boy. Ah yes I will definitely be owning up to my mistake for the judge, i refuse to make excuses for my actions. I figure the judge will respect that more and the first response gives me hope lol. As for the second one let me give a little more context to the story, I did get the ticket and so did my friend who was riding behind me. We were with 3 other riders one of which being a semi new rider who we had lost in the turns. After about 10 mins of waiting myself and my buddy went backwards fearing he had possibly gone off the road, the others waited on the side of the road. After going back to the beginning of the route with no signs of an accident we decided to go back, at this point we were worried so when we came to the extremely slow driver I waited until there was a long straight with no oncoming traffic, i checked my rear view, saw my buddy coming out the corner, and passed. He followed suit, later he told me that there was a white charger that was behind him unmarked, but was also anxious about his friend so he followed. Honestly I wasnt looking behind me very much as i was scanning the road for signs of a crash. The officer told us as he came around he saw me already getting over and my friend following. We told him the reason and he allowed us to make a call to our friend while he stood there, he heard him say he had took a wrong turn. We thought he would let us go at this point now that he knew we were telling the truth. Unfortunately, he said he could see why we were worried, but we were still getting our tickets. Im hoping he backs up our story in court and i think we will be alright.

The exhaust is from EBR themselves, comes with a ECM that is plug and play for it.

 

[djs2k2]

That new ebr exhaust is $399.00 nice!

 

[go cytocis]

Ah yes I will definitely be owning up to my mistake for the judge

That's one strategy that might get a few bucks/demerits knocked off your fine. It might also be worth at-least considering another approach before committing to admitting guilt.

Hopefully you just quietly took your ticket from the LEO without any discussion to tip him off to any possible defense you might decide to use in court, or any chatter that will help him identify you in court. The foggier he is on the details of the incident, the better off you are in court. Some folks also recommend delaying your court appearance several times to increase the chances of the LEO forgetting details of the incident, and/or simply not showing up for the hearing.

Also, how freshly-painted were the lines on the road? Were they clearly visible? Obscured by leaves or other debris? What were the light conditions? Is it possible that the double yellow lines were not clearly visible(?).

On the technical side, scour the ticket for any errors or illegible hand-writing which might void the ticket. Did the LEO follow normal protocols during the stop?

There are plenty more questions which may be relevant in your case too. It may even be worth getting a little legal advice.

I'm not advocating running from responsibility, but simply pointing out your right to reasonable & proper process.

Good luck!

 

[WIGGLE2]

You feared for your OWN safety following someone traveling THAT slowly? (Someone COULD come up over knob, etc. and hit you? ).

 

[09BuellXB9SX]

The painted lines on the road is a very interesting defense, I never even thought of that, I will be sure to go back and check to see how good they are. Thanks for that one! Also, the delaying is really the only advice I have heard of so far, ill have to look into doing that too. Great advice so far ppl, thank you.

 

[user_deleted]

as a retired PA. State Police detective............i recommend this:
requesting a rescheduled hearing without provable "cause" will piss off the magistrate who will make notation of same on his/her copy of citation on file at his/her magisterial office and negatively influence his/her objectivity.

go online and completely read and comprehend the VA vehicle code as it specifically relates to the charge against you. is it illegal passing.....reckless driving.....driving at an unsafe speed....what is it? whatever the veh. code section study it. if it is reckless driving as you appear to believe it is you have an excellent defense. the prosecutor(the policeman) must prove that all road markings specifically designating "no passing" where you passed were legible, identifiable, and consistent with the code's requirements. study it...go back to the scene of the crime and check.

make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the policeman establishes "bailiwick". this is the precise location..time...date...magisterial district....municipality....county.....and state where offense took place. many miss this.

lastly...if it in fact IS reckless driving ask the policeman while he's on the stand to define reckless driving. MAKE NOTES as he does. then have him explain to the magistrate WHAT was specifically reckless about your pass. he will testify first.

then it's your turn. be polite....concise....accurate....and explain to the magistrate this was not the case of a hot-shot on a high-powered bike riding like a maniac. this was a case of what you believed to be safety for yourself and be prepared to explain why. ALL STATES allow for the passing of slow movers such as implements of husbandry...amish buggies....horse drawn vehicles....regardless of road markings.....IF and ONLY IF it can be done safely and quickly. invoke that rationale as part of your argument.

if you lose you gave it your best shot.
that will be $100 please. just deposit into my paypal account.

 

[mrlogix]

that will be $100 please. just deposit into my paypal account.

:

LMAO

good advice though

 

[09BuellXB9SX]

Lunatic you the man! Great advice ill def do my research and ask exactly what you said. Thanks a lot!

 

[user_deleted]

my pleasure son. represent yourself and approach it logically. lawyers for stuff like this utterly useless and waste of valuable assets. what you're looking to do is NOT tip your hand. ask the policeman when he testifies what constitutes "reckless driving or riding". write down the focal points of his response. then ask him if he observed you perform any of these maneuvers. note what his response is as you'll use it in your brief closing argument. also ask him how long he was following you and if he recalls the approximate speed during this event. if he doesn't recall just let it be as that's in your favor. use that as well in your closing to corroborate that the vehicle directly ahead of you that you passed was travelling substantially below the posted limit and in your opinion falls under the guidelines in VA vehicle code for an acceptable over-taking maneuver on your part.

another $100 please. paypal preferred.

 

[mrlogix]

lunatic- I think you have found a new calling on the forum.

 

[user_deleted]

^^^^^^^ hey john......you have an "in" with any moderators? if so find out what's involved on my end to revise my ID so that it now reads "F. Lee Bailey".

 

[GregoXB]

Pleading guilty has gone badly for me every time. Max points and max fines. Try to fight it somehow. Calculate how many points you have on your license. If this ticket puts you at 9 points or greater, I would lawyer up, because one more speeding ticket and say goodbye to your license.

I got a 13 point speeding ticket a while back and I had no choice but to lawyer up. If I appeared in court, I might have been sent to jail. I had the money so I got a good lawyer and he knocked it down to a 4 pointer. He was good, he postponed and judge shopped for like 1 month till he got what he wanted. Cost me a pretty penny, but it was well worth it. I took a driver assessment course right after and got the points wiped down to 0.

 

[09BuellXB9SX]

Thanks for the advice, i am now going to fight it as i believe he cited me totally wrong. After much reading of the laws crossing double yellow lines is not automatic reckless, thats just the officers interpretation of it. Here is the law and the ones i believe i should have been given:

46.2-852. Reckless driving; general rule.

Irrespective of the maximum speeds permitted by law, any person who drives a vehicle on any highway recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving.

The following are all the laws i found that actually apply directly to me through the wording:

46.2-838. Passing when overtaking a vehicle.

The driver of any vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass at least two feet to the left of the overtaken vehicle and shall not again drive to the right side of the highway until safely clear of such overtaken vehicle, except as otherwise provided in this article.

46.2-843. Limitations on overtaking and passing.

The driver of a vehicle shall not drive to the left side of the center line of a highway in overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be made safely.

No person operating a truck or combination of vehicles shall pass or attempt to pass any truck or combination of vehicles going in the same direction on an upgrade if such passing will impede the passage of following traffic.

§ 46.2-804. Special regulations applicable on highways laned for traffic.

Whenever any roadway has been divided into clearly marked lanes for traffic, drivers of vehicles shall obey the following: 7. Whenever a highway is marked with double traffic lines consisting of two immediately adjacent solid white lines, no vehicle shall cross such lines;

Basically he is trying to get me on the most extreme "catch all" law of reckless driving general, however i believe one or even 2 of the other laws is what i should have been fined for. All the others are minimum points and very small fines ($91 each including all court fees). He will have to prove that i endangered all life limbs and property by passing with no oncoming traffic, on a back country road, on a straight away, in perfect road conditions, during daylight, and without speeding. Im also going to look into possibly getting a lawyer today. Thanks all for your help, and what is your take from the laws i provided?

 

[go cytocis]

just the officers interpretation...what is your take from the laws i provided?

I think you've discovered for yourself one of the fundamentals of the legal system: It's all in the interpretation.

I've successfully had every ticket I've ever received on motorcycles over the past couple of decades either thrown out, or at least had the penalties greatly reduced, by fighting them. I'm no legal expert but I have learned that, in spite of what us lay-people tend to believe, the law is not necessarily always the law.

Some other observations from my experience which might help you out:
- Judges, law enforcement & law-makers are distinct entities, each with their own biases, & they do not necessarily all agree with one-another. You can exploit the mis-alignments between them.
- Pick your defense (you can see from all the above suggestions that you have many to choose from) & stick with it. Focus every word that comes out of your mouth on supporting your defense.
- As lunatic pointed out above, use logical arguments which relate back to laws & process. I've not often seen emotion work well in traffic court.
- Use pictures to support your defense. As they say, a picture's worth a thousand words so if there is something about the scene that's relevant to your defense (unclear markings, signage, a crest in the road, whatever), go back & take a picture to present to the Judge. Just be prepared to surrender it as evidence.
- Dress for the occasion & use court-room etiquette. Little things like wearing a tie & addressing the Judge as "Your Honour" show the court (including the LEO who cited you) that you know what you're doing, you're serious about being there & in defending yourself.

Successfully fighting a ticket yourself is rewarding & a great educational experience; I applaud you for deciding to give it a try!

 

[Cooter]

1) Learn from it

2) Pay the penalty

3) Lick wounds

 

[jetlee]

§ 46.2-804. Special regulations applicable on highways laned for traffic.

Whenever any roadway has been divided into clearly marked lanes for traffic, drivers of vehicles shall obey the following: 7. Whenever a highway is marked with double traffic lines consisting of two immediately adjacent solid white lines, no vehicle shall cross such lines;

This will be the hard part to argue. It clearly says "no vehicle shall cross such lines;"

The lines before that say:

5. Wherever a highway is marked with double traffic lines consisting of a solid line immediately adjacent to a broken line, no vehicle shall be driven to the left of such line if the solid line is on the right of the broken line, but it shall be lawful to make a left turn for the purpose of entering or leaving a public, private, or commercial road or entrance.

6. Wherever a highway is marked with double traffic lines consisting of two immediately adjacent solid yellow lines, no vehicle shall be driven to the left of such lines, except when turning left;

If you weren't turning left, you got nailed by #5, #6 and #7.

If the vehicle you were passing was not a farm or service vehicle, but merely a passenger vehicle travelling slow, then the law is generally that you wait until permitted to pass by a dashed centerline.

Your best defense is going to be on a technicality, not the "passing the slow vehicle was safe for me" defense; if the DOT thought it was a safe place to pass, the lines would be dashed.


You got the reckless charge because you passed too close to a curve:

§ 46.2-854. Passing on or at the crest of a grade or on a curve.

A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who, while driving a vehicle, overtakes and passes another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, on or approaching the crest of a grade or on or approaching a curve in the highway, where the driver's view along the highway is obstructed, except where the overtaking vehicle is being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of travel or on a designated one-way roadway or highway.

The "Exceptions" for crossing a double yellow does not list "slow moving traffic", or anything similar.
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-920

Virginia is pretty black and white, good luck.