ZTL2 worth it over ZTL1 ?

[Silverrider]

Is your mc working properly releasing the pressure ? Wrong lever ?

 

[Niklos]

Hello ! What you're saying is very interesting cooter !

A brake caliper has zero to do with a rotor warping. Heat is the issue. Friction=heat.

What about if the calipers don't have the same friction surface area ? Just like ZTL1 & 2 ? If I recall correctly, ZTL2 has about 25% more friction surface area.

If you are continually warping stock brake rotors, you need an upgrade. The upgrade would be an EBR race rotor and solid mounting hardware, a ZTL-2 caliper, a 19mm radial master cylinder, and (IMO) EBC HH pads for the street. Heck, get a TPEHAK brake scoop if you want:angel:

I have many questions on that !
Is the 5mm EBR race rotor less likely to warped compared to the regular Buell rotor ? What about the solid mounting ? Is the rotor less likely to warp if you have the solid mounting hardware ? I actually that the floating would be better as the rotor can "move". Last question : Do you know what kind of pads you get when you buy a new ZTL2 caliper ?

Assuming the rotor is warped is a common mistake. What is is actually doing is sticking-sliding-sticking-sliding to the pads and you need to find out why. Stuck mounting hardware or uneven pad deposits will feel exactly the same. Replacing the rotor usually solves all 3 issues, reinforcing the original incorrect assumption. But you'll want to know if you have an actual overheating/ warping issue that needs to be solved.

+986. I had the issue. I thought my rotor was wrapped. But it was actualling the mounting hardware that was rusty. So my rotor was not floating anymore...

 

[Cooter]

More friction surface area means you're stopping 25% faster at the same pressure or the same distance at 25% less effort... whatever. It is still the same weight, speed, distance equation so more friction [area] requires less effort 'equal heat input'. This is super-generalizing of course and we could argue tenth of percent points all day, but the basic equation is brakes work by friction. Friction=heat. It's not the calipers adding heat that's the issue*. It is the rotors ability to shed that heat.

The EBR "race rotor" has been designed to shed heat better. If you are racing track days hard enough to warp a stock rotor, get a race rotor. Thats what is was designed to do.

I believe the solid mounting "race" hardware was designed to increase the contact with the wheel rim, allowing a better heat-sink and thus keeping the rotor cooler.

I also believe the stock floating rotor arrangement was originally designed to stop any piston knock-back issues if a wheel isn't running perfectly true. I haven't had any issued with using the EBR hardware kit.

* a ZTL-2 caliper also has the advantage of being just bigger. Bigger= more metal= better heat sink. Theres a discussion of fast track/ slow track for a balanced system, but a street driven Buell on street pads will love a bigger, better caliper with a matched master cylinder.

 

[Cooter]

I don't know what EBR supplies as a OEM brake pad, but you could call them and ask? I'm curious, maybe Lunatic knows?

 

[Silverrider]

https://www.oemcycle.com/Item/product/900091719

Braking's original outer profile design – floating and constructed of only the highest quality stainless steel, capable of expanding and contracting under hot temperatures, without warping
320mm outer diameter – perfect for off-road to supermoto conversion; must use 320mm Caliper Bracket
Alloy center for less weight, helps get the bike in and out of turning angles quicker
Provides much stronger braking power, but with improved feeling – leading to increased overall performance and handling of the bike
A great combination of improved performance and appeal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=120&v=bFD3H5wGP-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=i8VGS4T-_E0

 

[Cooter]

Thats funny you posted that SR, I am a big fan of Galfer stuff in the dirt. The company has been around awhile and in racing so I'm sure their Buell rotors are nice. I am also curious about the Buell specific brake pads they make? I'm pretty happy with EBC HH pads though. Maybe I'll experiment when it's time for new ones

The BraKing description isn't for a Buell non-floating, non-alloy center rotor. Wrong size too. Probably a copy/paste description for all their rotors? I like the look of their stuff :angel: but I honestly don't know much about the company. Thats what you just got right? How do you like it?

 

[Silverrider]

I like it !!!! Still doing a little bedding had it up to 120 mph feels good.

 

[Niklos]

Thanks for your detailed answer Cooter !

 

[Cooter]

Dang SR your XB has the 'stance'. Just looks so MEAN! This rain is Killing' me! How does the rest of this country go for months without riding!? Driving me cray cray:upset:

I appreciate that Niklos I don't know everything, but I sure do type a lot!

 

[The Bob]

upset:
I appreciate that Niklos I don't know everything, but I sure do type a lot!

You'se guys make this a most valuable forum. Tons of knowledge and willingness to share. It's impressive that you are hanging in there with these scooters.

I visited the local KtM store today. He sure bad-mouthed Buell. Sheesh. Not my new friend.

 

[Cooter]

Thanks Bob:angel: A few guys on here keep this place active and alive, I respect them and appreciate their knowledge and effort. We are a happy family (mostly)

Theres something about the simplicity and soul that Erik and his company put in all of these machines that can't be matched by many others. Of course there are 'better' bikes out there now:hororr:, they have had 8 years to catch up! lol.

His opinion is odd considering Buell wasn't (ever?) in competition with KTM, but I only get the bad press reviews from people who have never experienced one.

'I hate Buell'
Ever ridden one?
'No'
Well... then I hate being a Magical Princess

Ask the sales guy about KTM's 'warranty' Go ahead, look it up, it's terrible. Full disclosure... The SuperDuke 1290 is on a very short list of holy-grail bikes I MUST own someday:love_heart:

 

[The Bob]

'another question: I appreciate the Buell front brake. I'm not aware of any other bikes with ZTL style rotors. Are there any?

 

[Silverrider]

Bob , I know you know that the EBR has them , you were on the EBR forum.

 

[The Bob]

Of course. EBR is kind of related. Just seems like others would catch on to the advantage.
Maybe nobody wants to give Eric the credit for a different idea...

 

[Silverrider]

I believe it is a owned patent, not sure whom owned it currently , Most likely Bill Melvin. Mr liquid_performance.

 

[oh9bolt]

EriK*, there is my help for the day.... Make sure to keep your gas cap on in the right direction as well!

 

[Cooter]

Ouch! I deserve that, what a rookie...:upset: I have to install my gas cap upside down for a month as punishment and tell everyone with a Buell they have a headlight out:black_eyed:




* I fixed-ed it

 

[Ajapai]

How hard is to change ztl1 to ztl2? is it bolt on with no mods?

 

[Niklos]

How hard is to change ztl1 to ztl2? is it bolt on with no mods?

Yep. You just need the caliper, brake line and master cylinder.

For Buell XB you need :
H1110.1AMZT Caliper
H0507.1AMD Master Cylinder
Buell OEM Stainless Steel Brake Line : H1531.4AK for XB12X or H1531.1AMA for XB12XT (not sure abou this one) or H1531.8AE for others XB

 

[Silverrider]

On my 08 XB SCG I did not change the brake line. Maybe on the taller bikes.