almost mugged and bike stolen

[agfish18]

It's okay to "turn and burn"--that's a viable defense. But when cornered and there is no option, it is my opinion that its ok to meet a threat of life threatening violence with deadly force

Agreed[up]

My whole family carries concealed... to include my mom and dad, and my wife and both of her parents. My wife and I are both veterans, and have recieved several hundred hours of training with firearms. Both of our fathers are also veterans as well. My mother and her mother are the only two in the family without the military background, but they are very active in the shooting community as both are involved in a group called Divas (a woman only shooting group) who go through training on a monthly basis with different firing techniques, self defense classes, and are offered the chance to fire several different weapons to include shotguns, AR's, machine guns, etc.

I would consider myself and my family to be fairly well trained, and I will always carry where I can. I too probably would have done the same thing this young man did if I were in the same situation, but I always have my gun just in case I am in a similar situation that doesnt go as well as this. I will defend my life to the full extent of my ability, but shooting someone will always be my LAST option, but it WILL be an option.

 

[bigrodge8]

So, vroom's article links to octopus's study which doesn't differentiate between the law-abiding gun owner and any Philly gang banger. The study could just as easily support the statement, and likely more accurately, "gang bangers with guns tend to shoot each other". Regardless, you put what value you want on your life and the material possessions you spend your life earning. To me the time I spend, my life, earning my possessions is exactly that, my life. I don't get a do over on any day, I don't get that time back, I don't get my life back. It is certainly worth defending.

[up][up][up]

 

[theoctopus]

Different strokes for different folks, Rhino1. It's what makes the world go around. I was born and raised during the LA riots in bad neighborhoods across LA, so I speak only from experience and the minor firearms training I have had the pleasure of completing. I have, however, worked intimately with gangmembers (MS13, bloods, crips, 18th street, EXP, you name the set and I probably could throw a few names out there), and I do not agree with your assertions as to the primary goals of the thugs. Certainly, if required, violence is not an unreasonable outcome, but 99% of the time walking away from their target will remove you from danger. Again, this is just my experience.

Let me be crystal clear, I am not arguing for or against the second amendment, nor for or against the right to concealed carry. Only that escalation with a firearm should always be the last option considered. There are too many yokels with big guns and no training who are quick to pull a Dirty Harry, only to find that it does not work out as planned. I hope that neither I, nor anyone else here, ever has to make that choice.

Plasticgunz: it doesn't really matter who owns the firearm. The fact of the matter is that the study speaks to the fact that carrying a weapon did not protect the individual who carried it.

 

[theoctopus]

If I may pull a couple quick quotes...

My wife and I are both veterans, and have recieved several hundred hours of training with firearms

I will defend my life to the full extent of my ability, but shooting someone will always be my LAST option, but it WILL be an option.

This is my primary point.

 

[Rhino1]

Octopus, We can agree to disagree about their motives or the belief of inherent nobility within them that can allow them to let one walk away 99% of the time. I worked with gangs in my prior life, and even had a company vehicle that allowed me to get intimate with many of them:

[removed--my son still looks to much like that for me to plaster his pic all over the web... ]

I do not believe in the nobility of their motives. I know they're not all "like that," but enough of them are for me to understand what it means when they get out of a car en-masse.

I applaud you for doing your part to work with these groups. I wish you well in that respect. And I respect your right to your position, but I have a different way of seeing it.

 

[theoctopus]

belief of inherent nobility within them

This is the very nature of what I do. I work to rehabilitate them. I see a lot of bad seeds go good. It's what has driven me into medicine: a faith in the goodness of humanity, and an urge to rectify the bad for those who can't do it themselves.

I don't think we truly disagree in this argument, in that I support the right to bear arms and believe that concealed carry should be available to all trained individuals. Nevertheless, I'm glad we can keep it civil!

 

[Rhino1]

Amen, Octo! This is like the most civil discussion on this topic I've ever read...

 

[theoctopus]

It's what happens when educated and reasonable people discuss an important topic logically. Something our government could really stand to learn, in my opinion.

 

[bigrodge8]

Octo WOOT WOOT[cool]

 

[rshepler217]

^^^agreed!!

 

[ASH]

My initial statement about that's why i always carry is a snapshot of what rhino 1 has stated above. I never once implied that they should have had a gun fight. I to agree with proper training before acquiring an actual license. And don't stop there, continued training and education is a must. Maybe i am just passionate about special weapons and tactics!

Rep point for rhino 1. [up]

 

[Zeroflat24]

I don't think we truly disagree in this argument, in that I support the right to bear arms and believe that concealed carry should be available to all trained individuals. Nevertheless, I'm glad we can keep it civil!

my only beef with this is, no where in the constitution does it say "the right to keep and bear arms....if your trained" i totally get your point, but do not support the requirement of training to carry a firearm.

 

[WildmanXB12R]

I always love these types of discussions because there is always going to be one or two internet Rambo's who are going to talk about how they would have pulled a gun and shot some guy. And a lot of these guys have never been in a situation nor do they even own or carry a firearm.

I was deployed to Iraq in 2004 and got my chance to know what it feels like to draw down on another human and fire a weapon at them with the intent to kill. So for all the wanna be's get a life.

I too think what the OP did was the best idea. The fact that he tried to draw them away from his house was a great idea. I am glad it all turn out ok. I know I would never take a life for my motorcycle no matter which one it was. Nothing I own is worth that. Now if I am ever in a situation where someone is trying to harm me or my family that is totally different. I know how to shot and I know I can if needed but I also know when and where to draw a weapon.

 

[Rhino1]

That's funny, Wildman, because nobody posted anything like what you said. And your statement about "wannabe's" is what makes internet discussions get ridiculous--its the very type of personal attacks and "chest-thumping" we were trying to avoid.

I'm just sayin...

 

[Zeroflat24]

That's funny, Wildman, because nobody posted anything like what you said. And your statement about "wannabe's" is what makes internet discussions get ridiculous--its the very type of personal attacks and "chest-thumping" we were trying to avoid.

I'm just sayin..

i would have double tapped everyone of those gang bangers while doing a 12 o'clock wheelie at 80mph

 

[CrazyTexan]

Wow, this went totally civil and smooth... So much for plastering my trolling pictures up Mby next time

 

[Lesley]

Wow, this went totally civil and smooth

I agree. I was offbase a bit when I posted on here this morning but it was only because I misunderstood a few post before mine.

I am not anit-gun. Only anti vigilante and I can see there aren't any here. Only good folks who are passionate about thier rights and beliefs just as I am mine.

I appreciate all honesty whether I want to hear it sometimes or not.

Happy Independence Day AMERICA.

Safe journeys

[up]

 

[Rhino1]

Happy Independence Day, Lesley! [up]

 

[Lesley]

Thanks Rhino1

Right back atchoo

 

[rah7777777]

I've been taught you never pull a gun out unless you are willing to take a bullet at that very moment! I believe this 100%!!

With that said, I never leave my house with out a gun on me
(besides when I'm in my work clothes)

Gun is last resort, but if I'm at the point I can accept I may get shot, it means I'm at the point of no return, in full fear of my or my families life and at that time I'll pull out my gun and do my best to stop the harm from reaching further into my life.

You never show off a gun or use it as a scare tactic. The only time someone should know you have a gun is after they've heard the "click" from the hammer.

Just my thoughts...