Bid to buy Ducati... from Harley?

[midway]

Since Harley is already losing so much market share (not a secret) and just got a .gov bailout (not a secret), they get to use that money (OUR money!!) to buy Ducati, then suck the profits out of them? (

This can't happen then... say it isn't true! I don't have much love for the big chrome cruisers but if this is all true Ducati must be smarter than this.

 

[jl551c]

Audi hasn't owned them all that long. Not sure how much profit can be sucked out. The 2 cylinder bikes racing in WSBK may not be around much longer since inline 4 electronics have caught up in performance. Ducati probably needs to change to a V4 engine like their MotoGP bikes to stay competitive, which is quite a break from tradition. Not sure if 1 or 2 engine Harley will dump the cash in to design a new engine. I love that a small company like Ducati has beaten the crap out of the Japanese giants over the last 25 years.

 

[Disturbed1]

If you loose market share, as a business, there are only two ways to regain it. ( Simplified. )

1.) Rework your business model and revamp your product line to be desirable to the consumer.

2.) Leverage your current assets and purchase your competitors.

It looks like Harley has taken the latter to increase market share. But one thing they they are overlooking is brand name, for better or worse. Buy purchasing Ducati, they may actually harm the business more by attaching there name to it, even if they leave the business intact and operating separately. Consumer perceptions are the most fragile commodity in selling products.

 

[BuellyBagger]

You know, I wonder if Harley is reading the writing on the wall that's telling them they are headed towards hard times and bought Ducati to have a scape goat when they fall on their face. Then they will disembowel Duc and use the revenue to nurtue their 30hp sofa line up. Basically like they did to Buell....

Hey my softail makes 80hp and it's only 1690cc sooooo sad

 

[Silverrider]

Hey my softail makes 80hp and it's only 1690cc sooooo sad

Yea , But it does it with style! :up:

 

[GregoXB]

Consumer perceptions are the most fragile commodity in selling products.

Good point.... that's why a Buell/Harley pairing made sense, America and America. I don't see it working any other way. America/Italia.... hmm idk.... we'll see.

 

[GregoXB]

If you loose market share, as a business, there are only two ways to regain it. ( Simplified. )

1.) Rework your business model and revamp your product line to be desirable to the consumer.

.

Harley's response:

 

[Disturbed1]

I don't see it working any other way. America/Italia

Well maybe Harley is reliving it's youth... or more likely my youth.

Believe it or not, at one point, it was Harley / Italia. After World War II they purchase 50% of Aermacchi and started bringing low displacement motorcycles Badged with the Harley name into the US. I know this because I owned one, a 1974 AMF Harley-Davidson SX175. It was a phenomenal two stroke that was oil injected. ( You put the oil in the frame by the steering head collar.) Parts were hard to come by, even when the bike was new. But after a period of time AMF sold them to Cagiva in 1978.

At the time, this business model made sense, cheap bikes sold for a profit in the US.

 

[Cooter]

The AMF 'Harleys' aren't exactly known as a highlight of their history.:upset:

 

[Disturbed1]

The AMF 'Harleys' aren't exactly known as a highlight of their history

While this is somewhat true. The shovel head motor was reliable if you did the correct maintenance... much like a women. Back then I took a FXR four times from Illinois to California. ( Willey G styled Boat Tail.) Put over 25 thou on it before selling it to a friend... With those motors, if you did valve springs and a re-ring job shortly after 8000 miles you were typically good for a while. That and replace rocker box gaskets, because they sucked and leaked after you touched them.

Besides, I still have an AMF pool table...:black_eyed:

 

[Outlaw]

Lots of HD haters on here. But I bet there a lot here like me that have a HD cruiser of some sort and a Buell. Love my Street glide and my m2. I just wish the motor company would take the opportunity to by EBR.

 

[Cooter]

Not so much HD haters, just the clear view that it's a terrible brand and business model match. I've had (and liked) several Harleys. The right tool for the job and all...

 

[Disturbed1]

[QUOTE}just the clear view that it's a terrible brand and business model match.[/QUOTE]

While this is, what I believe, most of the consumer perception in the United States... Europe is a different matter entirely.

If Harley does purchase a major stake in Ducati, they will have bought themselves into the most prestigious racing in the the world, MotoGP. And from a marketing perspective, be able to tout there name ( next to Ducati's ) on banners all over Europe. Especially now, since a Ducati has sorted through there bike and is in the hunt for the championship.

Harley-Davidson, when it comes to racing, has always been a hanger on... Not a supporter in the sense of the other manufactures. As much as we liked Buell & EBR, they were never going to get to that level of racing.

 

[njloco]

I had a 1982 Commemorative Harley lowrider, great bike, cruised very nicely, never left me on the side of the road and I road into NYC everyday, sounded great and I ended up getting much more for it than I bought it for, I would buy another if the right deal came along but, I would never go into the showroom and buy one !

 

[Disturbed1]

Harley sold off MV and dropped Buell to concentrate on their core competency, cruisers.

This is true, but is also a lie by Harley-Davidson to cover up there losses. They were invested, like a lot of companies of that time , in the junk stock/bonds of the sub-prime loans. (Diversification through owning stock additional to there own, and the companies doing this were making a killing until the end.) When the chickens came home to roost, they were caught with there pants down. Much like VW, they have to sell Ducati partially because of the emissions scandal, and fines levied against them to the tune of 4.3 billion in the US alone.

 

[Cooter]

"and fines levied against them to the tune of 4.3 billion in the US alone."

It was actually a 12-15 Million "slap on the wrist"...

 

[Disturbed1]

12-15 Million "slap on the wrist".

I could be wrong. Maybe my wording was incorrect, but directly from the US Justice Department.

Volkswagen AG Agrees to Plead Guilty and Pay $4.3 Billion in Criminal and Civil Penalties.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-ag-agrees-plead-guilty-and-pay-43-billion-criminal-and-civil-penalties-six

 

[Cooter]

I read that as you meant Harley. My bad if you meant VW, I was talking about H-D and their emission 'scandal' over Vance and Hines programmers they sold through Dealers.

 

[GregoXB]

Sometimes I wonder, if Erik had just cooled down, cut his losses, and taken that job Harley offered him.... perhaps they would have let him reintroduce at least his air cooled line up right about now....

 

[BuellyBagger]

Sometimes I wonder, if Erik had just cooled down, cut his losses, and taken that job Harley offered him.... perhaps they would have let him reintroduce at least his air cooled line up right about now....

If they were smart they'd have him engineering a bagger that runs, stops, and turns @ least as well as a gold wing (which the new ones are closer than ever...) and got better than 30mpg!! Either way Erik is an amazing engineer and it would be better that he being improving someones motorcycle rather than being "out of a job". although i doubt he's sitting @ home watch soap opera's. I wonder if the burn from Harley will ever wear off for him?? I'd be excited to see what he could do!